Should PA level caps increase for Expert Types?

[FUFME]

If 25 people think the world is flat, I don't think we should all roll with it and be all/end all

These numbers are too buffed and all over the place.  Fortegunner definitely does not need LV50 bullets, and Master Force should have like LV30 support techs

Majority of this 25 are going to pick an Acrotecher to be in their party as it is,  why give them more benefits ? 

 

 

 

[Time]

8 minutes ago, KanameChidori said:

Horrible boss damage from Slicers or as a whole? Because Sekka is one of the best boss killers in the game and naturally Slicers would be shit for bosses.

lmao no I didn't mean slicers for bosses, I meant slicers in parties usually 4 or more the damage from them just wasn't great and it would knock mobs back/away from the rest of the party making it hard for others to hit the mobs,as for their bossing it was total shit, bosses would move too much and AF couldn't JC at all with sekka they would just get knocked up constantly rendering the PA uselss on bosses most of the time

Edited August 28, 2019 by Time

[Delta Violet+]

21 minutes ago, Time said:

Uhhhh AF has not been keeping with FM at all since zeta came out, renzan couldn't kill trash as fast as spiral dance or skadd and slicers were piss poor in party play not to mention their horrible boss damage.....

For the average AF/FM perhaps, half the AFs weren’t even using ranpa or even had it leveled. Me and Jess ran quite a few tests between renzan / ranpa / spiral / skadd / gravity break. In many of which it turned towards AF’s favour and an upset Jess

[Time]

4 minutes ago, Delta Violet+ said:

For the average AF/FM perhaps, half the AFs weren’t even using ranpa or even had it leveled. Me and Jess ran quite a few tests between renzan / ranpa / spiral / skadd / gravity break. In many of which it turned towards AF’s favour and an upset Jess

I'd like to know where you tested this and on what mobs and the results if you don't mind

[tFirstSavedLives]

5 minutes ago, Delta Violet+ said:

Quite the defensive creature aren’t you.

Acrofighter is better than skadd right now, yes. I’ve already said this but I’ll entertain it by answering it again,  when ultimate knight / blood spear comes out, the tables turn and FM will be back on top. Which brings us to when I spoke about skadd = I’m not in any devs ear Atall, the mods have mentioned this on multiple occasions that when they start balancing PAs that skadd will most likely get a nerf.

It’s not much of a debate if you can’t understand the 40-50 modifiers. Correct.

25 people would like to see the other classes have more playtime, which Im completely FOR , and have said “I like it” don’t exaggerate. The same reason when testing rare missions they shouldn’t go from 4% - 11%. Raising numbers until it fits is just a better method.

 

Is English your first language? Or do you just not understand what I'm typing?
Every response you just typed missed my points entirely.
 

[Delta Violet+]

5 minutes ago, Time said:

I'd like to know where you tested this and on what mobs and the results if you don't mind

Cit of sands / holy grounds using those PAs I mentioned, if you want numbers it was two months ago I don’t remember that, but the kill time between was minimal, an argument you could make is that I did have good gear which would tip it in my favour, but AF also has crowd control, skadd has pushback, spiral has blowback. Remember that I said they was on par, not better than.

This is based off the two classes solo aswell, once you bring in freeze traps in a party and slicers pushback it could be argued that FM is better, but without the party potential or even duo,  AF using its correct PAS has been on par for longer than people care to believe. 

16 minutes ago, tFirstSavedLives said:

Is English your first language? Or do you just not understand what I'm typing?
Every response you just typed missed my points entirely.
 

I pretty much answered everything you said, I think it’s your inability to read at this point.

[tFirstSavedLives]

You responded to me sure,did you actually respond to the *points* of what I typed? Not at all.

[Delta Violet+]

I don't see a problem with a damage class being good at damage,are you personally nerfing Skadd? Are you in the dev's ear? If Acrofighter is better than skadd why does Skadd need to be nerfed?

This *is* a debate btw it's on a public forum asking for feedback and proposing a change.

25 people so far seem ok with the proposed numbers,Why test halfway when you can give the maximum benefit to test.

Overshooting would be above level 50 PAs I can't believe I have to point that out.

 

Quite the defensive creature aren’t you.

Acrofighter is better than FM** right now, yes. I’ve already said this but I’ll entertain it by answering it again,  when ultimate knight / blood spear comes out, the tables turn and FM will be back on top. Which brings us to when I spoke about skadd = I’m not in any devs ear Atall, the mods have mentioned this on multiple occasions that when they start balancing PAs that skadd will most likely get a nerf.

It’s not much of a debate if you can’t understand the 40-50 modifiers. Correct.

25 people would like to see the other classes have more playtime, which Im completely FOR , and have said “I like it” don’t exaggerate. The same reason when testing rare missions they shouldn’t go from 4% - 11%. Raising numbers until it fits is just a better method.

IVE COLOUR COORDINATED TO HELP YOU NAVIGATE THIS COMPLEX RESPONSE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE IVE ANSWERED YOUR *POINTS*

Let me know if this doesn't help ill use bullet point and everything.

[tFirstSavedLives]

Just now, Delta Violet+ said:

I don't see a problem with a damage class being good at damage,are you personally nerfing Skadd? Are you in the dev's ear? If Acrofighter is better than skadd why does Skadd need to be nerfed?

This *is* a debate btw it's on a public forum asking for feedback and proposing a change.

25 people so far seem ok with the proposed numbers,Why test halfway when you can give the maximum benefit to test.

Overshooting would be above level 50 PAs I can't believe I have to point that out.

 

Quite the defensive creature aren’t you.

Acrofighter is better than FM** right now, yes. I’ve already said this but I’ll entertain it by answering it again,  when ultimate knight / blood spear comes out, the tables turn and FM will be back on top. Which brings us to when I spoke about skadd = I’m not in any devs ear Atall, the mods have mentioned this on multiple occasions that when they start balancing PAs that skadd will most likely get a nerf.

It’s not much of a debate if you can’t understand the 40-50 modifiers. Correct.

25 people would like to see the other classes have more playtime, which Im completely FOR , and have said “I like it” don’t exaggerate. The same reason when testing rare missions they shouldn’t go from 4% - 11%. Raising numbers until it fits is just a better method.

IVE COLOUR COORDINATED TO HELP YOU NAVIGATE THIS COMPLEX RESPONSE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE IVE ANSWERED YOUR *POINTS*

Let me know if this doesn't help ill use bullet point and everything.

lol

[Exmover]

57 minutes ago, FUFME said:

Fortegunner definitely does not need LV50 bullets.

 

 

 

Care to explain why FG doesn't need it? since in terms of DPS FG is quite in middle ground. Even if taking GM as comparison, faster shooting still make them better even with lvl 50 bullet FGs. I know FG is more tanky and has more utility. It's just as dps class, FG needs something to cover its fire rate. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Exmover

[FUFME]

Fortegunner seems absolutely perfect to me and never had any issues.   The chart does show the PP consumption for FG at 41+ and uses much less PP than a GM. 

I have not used Grenades ever, but if FG gets LV50 Bullets w/ S rank Grenades, what's the point of GM existing ? lol,  -- in the sense lot of people say Twin handguns are worthless. 

I like using Twin Handguns on certain maps, but LV50 for the twins is still stuck at SE2.  A nice benefit for GM would make it SE3

 

41+ Bullets also opens the doors for lots of extra bonuses.  SE5, more Accuracy.   FG gets LV31+ Knockdown, and seems to be working again but not sure what needs to be tweaked. 

[Exmover]

From the first place, more pp consumption rate for GM is already a trade off for faster atk (applies to all master class, pretty sure you know). FG has utility like access to all traps, but any expert GM with 10 hits in one shot shotgun has made bigger gap with other two gunners. I just see this as a way to cover lack of FG and GT's damage.

 

About lauchers. 41+ launchers isn't game breaking, Even with broken duranga. GM with decent shotguns, faster attack, and splash (this is the correct term?) Damage still outshines grenades duranga in any way, the only thing that can keep up with it is utility, and that is knockdown

Also for SE bonuses like rifles again it won't matter. FG and GT has slower fire rate, meaning even if they also have same SE5 on rifles, they still proc less because of less shoot. CMIIW

Edited August 28, 2019 by Exmover

[FUFME]

I think it's a joke giving Fortegunner LV20 skills.  I don't think I ever seen anyone use striking weapons with that class.  It seems the class already leans heavy on guns and bullets and requesting more tweaks seems overkill.

Is there a way to Boost each class in certain ways  and preventing that class from using certain PA's ?   Depending on the class it would be determined within 3 types of boost +1 Level, +10 Level and +11 Level

 

[FUFME]

I think we should all agree Sega did not know what the hell they were doing and left a giant mess for us to figure out.   They made soo many changes along the way and nothing was set in stone.

That GAS update page is a cluster f- of Game Shark Codes and lot of it really UN-necessary. 

Here is a word count for that GAS Page

Pages - 22
Words - 6,344
Characters (no spaces) 21,521
Characters (with spaces) 25,790
Paragraphs - 1,160
Lines - 2,249

[Exmover]

36 minutes ago, FUFME said:

I think it's a joke giving Fortegunner LV20 skills.  I don't think I ever seen anyone use striking weapons with that class.  It seems the class already leans heavy on guns and bullets and requesting more tweaks seems overkill.

Is there a way to Boost each class in certain ways  and preventing that class from using certain PA's ?   Depending on the class it would be determined within 3 types of boost +1 Level, +10 Level and +11 Level

 

Well, you see, I was one of that abnormalities lol. Using lvl 20 infinite storm as a coverage to some bullet resist enemies is a thing. Don't underestimate it. It's just 3.2k on 2nd hit tho

with lvl 30. Will be about 3.3-3.4k I think.

[Nikki]

Let's keep the thread on a civil track please. Don't wanna see more of like page 2 or all that messy quoting/raging, just sayin

 

[Light]

hmmmmmmmmmm lol

Here's what happened...

Dev's Release Event

No one runs event because of rare mission chance change ----------> COM

Dev's Needs players to Run Event for:
1. Fine the issue with boss teleport crash

2. Get Data On falz

3. Adjust it - then extend event for another week ( more testing )

So what happened was....

1. No one ran the event.

2. They Remove CoM

3. Place stupid Drops for only 2 Class types - which btw DID NOT NEED POWER INCREASE ATM ( 80% PSUC players are fighter types - so I see why - but does not excuse this. )

3. Slap us with - we are not doing balance atm

--------------------------------------------------------------

Frankly - Whoever is in charge of the loot table / release of drops for classes needs to be..........

 tons of others classes were already struggling to keep up - it's a joke tbh

Can seriuosly write alot more... but dam ---- 

Just why???????

--- Shouldnt need to as for GAS - or % for any class other than fm / af very single time.....

Edited August 28, 2019 by Light

[FUFME]

I don't have any solid opinion on Fortegunner.  It always seemed like a support character that camps out in the background.   For a gunner and close counter combat Dagger, Saber or Bayonet attached to rifle is normal.  Long Spear seems too advanced as it gets higher and does more extra moves.

I'm not sure if there are any current level restrictions that prevent knock down.   

 

[KanameChidori]

Could just give them 42 or 32, so they get the buff for ele percents and acc/atp and be done with it. Wouldn't cause as many issues as just full 40/50. That's why in the real game you'd pick your 3-4 most used weapon types and give them 42-44. For bullets like Shotguns that 41+ is huge, it's the next tier of ele percent.

Edited August 28, 2019 by KanameChidori

[FUFME]

Classes that seem to need the most adjustment are Guntecher, Wartecher and Master Force

It does not make sense giving Guntecher LV10 Skills and Wartecher LV20 bullets and everything else is same level.  Master Force LV10 support techs is ludicrous, even LV20. 

If there is a way to lock some techs at LV31, I don't see an issue.  or even restrict some techs.  There seems to be a lot more Support Techs now, than when the game first came out.

I don't see any major damage in the game giving Fortetecher LV41 normal buffs and Giresta.  But I dont think FT should have access to all those like De-buffs and the new super buffs Dizas and Rentis.

If there a way to break down support techs and just give Guntecher & Wartecher LV21 Debuffs / Dizas / Rentis

Guntecher/Wartecher/Master Force all get LV31 Normal Buffs and Giresta only - Reverser up to debate
Guntecher/Warcher - LV21 Debuffs / Dizas / Rentis
Fortetecher just gets LV41 Buffs / Giresta only - No other , but where does that lead Reverser and up for debate and not much needed

Give Acrotecher LV31 attack techs and lock it at 31 because LV31 vs LV40 Diga is mega powerful.  - All other LV21 Guns & Skills and get to keep full arsenal of LV41+ support techs.

 

[Exmover]

3 hours ago, KanameChidori said:

Could just give them 42 or 32, so they get the buff for ele percents and acc/atp and be done with it. Wouldn't cause as many issues as just full 40/50. That's why in the real game you'd pick your 3-4 most used weapon types and give them 42-44. For bullets like Shotguns that 41+ is huge, it's the next tier of ele percent.

I kinda agree with this, but not fully, especially with shotguns and grenades, but not with other bullet weapons. Anyway what I'm about to write below is highly personal opinion.

As FG I prefer to still main sabers and lvl 40 elemental bullet + maga's xbow despite also having lvl 40 shotguns. Reason:

Other than GM, every shot from shotguns make you stand still bit longer, making it less efficient than above said crossbow, despite just dealing about 1.5k per crit at best all around. Another point is that in clem lvl 31+ xbow can already shoot 5 bullets. In professional zeta, with SE3 freeze, I can just freeze jusnaguns and bead groode to death since it procs so often. Swapping this to shotguns will take time, and also not too worth to use, since xbow can already shoots two times instead of shotguns one. Becauss of this, I prefer to use infinite storm for bead groode's case.

Reason of I stand on lvl 50 bullet shotguns, even as FG, as so that shotguns can deal more than two times crossbow can do, effectively can be put as strong finishers for FGs

I know what GAS can provide with weapon types is limited. It's just that other GAS content isn't available.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Exmover

[KanameChidori]

Ultimately GAS will be implemented in some way, so at some point expert types will end up with higher caps. But being a test and all that it doesn't really matter what changes since it will all get wiped anyway. Could just try these changes and see the feedback then change again every few weeks until something is agreed upon by the majority.

Edited August 29, 2019 by KanameChidori

[Valen]

6 hours ago, FUFME said:

Classes that seem to need the most adjustment are Guntecher, Wartecher and Master Force

It does not make sense giving Guntecher LV10 Skills and Wartecher LV20 bullets and everything else is same level.  Master Force LV10 support techs is ludicrous, even LV20. 

If there is a way to lock some techs at LV31, I don't see an issue.  or even restrict some techs.  There seems to be a lot more Support Techs now, than when the game first came out.

I don't see any major damage in the game giving Fortetecher LV41 normal buffs and Giresta.  But I dont think FT should have access to all those like De-buffs and the new super buffs Dizas and Rentis.

If there a way to break down support techs and just give Guntecher & Wartecher LV21 Debuffs / Dizas / Rentis

Guntecher/Wartecher/Master Force all get LV31 Normal Buffs and Giresta only - Reverser up to debate
Guntecher/Warcher - LV21 Debuffs / Dizas / Rentis
Fortetecher just gets LV41 Buffs / Giresta only - No other , but where does that lead Reverser and up for debate and not much needed

Give Acrotecher LV31 attack techs and lock it at 31 because LV31 vs LV40 Diga is mega powerful.  - All other LV21 Guns & Skills and get to keep full arsenal of LV41+ support techs.

 

I don't think any other class should get any kind of 41+ buffs. If LB ever got implemented, or something similar, you would just use Fortecher over Acrotecher because it would do way more damage.

Debuffs are useless right now. The only one that actually works properly is Jellen, and even then, you would only use it on S4 on big mobs or in niche scenarios on S3 to not get knocked down / knocked back.

As Marm had stated "Rentis and Dizas have been changed and now reduce a fixed percentage of damage. This is to restore JC functionality for classes that depend on it. Level 6 reduction will reduce incoming damage as much as 30% (Subject to change).". Now, I'm not entirely sure if its just a flat 30% reduction at 41+ or if its working as intended. But either way, currently they are only really helpful if used in conjunction with high % Line Shield with Vijeri / Rainbow and Deband / Retier.

Reverser is just bad. Everyone in your party gets 20 Sol Atomizers, and the range is huge. It also is much faster to use one then swap to a weapon that has Reverser equipped.

[FUFME]

That is a mega boost all across the deck for Acrotecher 30/30/40/50 would be Attila the Hun and Ultimate Warrior.

That is a total game changer.  My suggestion would be long down the road when hitting LV180+ and unlock the class past LV20 and get some extra perks

[tFirstSavedLives]

21 minutes ago, FUFME said:

That is a mega boost all across the deck for Acrotecher 30/30/40/50 would be Attila the Hun and Ultimate Warrior.

That is a total game changer.  My suggestion would be long down the road when hitting LV180+ and unlock the class past LV20 and get some extra perks

Nah, level 30 striking and bullets are still meh on Acrotecher and level 40 techs don't mean much for damage cause they don't have access to rod

Edited August 29, 2019 by tFirstSavedLives