Should PA level caps increase for Expert Types?

[Delta Violet+]

Yeah the acro classes need to be dealt with separately:

Acrofightier : 45 skill / 35 bullet

Acrotecher : 25 skill / 25 bullet / 35 tech

Another issue would be fortetecher, that buff without LB would put an end to MF, buffing the support/bullets and not the attack techs would help with that. Or raising to 45..

But I like it!

Edited August 27, 2019 by Delta Violet+

[Exmover]

10 hours ago, FB Ice said:

Soloing bosses has never been super viable unless you're overleveled aside from melee classes

It's possible to solo boss endgame boss fast with GT. But not now under this current condition: GT needs limit break on Ra spells to overcome its boundaries.

That said, again with PA increase cap, GT can still burst through boss, albeit longer with, lvl 20 spiral dance and and 2M PA from double blades, lvl 50 PA longbows with decent weapon, and not to mention lvl 50 shotgun PA with "10 hits in one shot" method?

But as beast, nano can cover boss part better tho since you stated things about beast GT, but better not depend on it  

Edited August 27, 2019 by Exmover

[Valen]

2 hours ago, Delta Violet+ said:

Yeah the acro classes need to be dealt with separately:

Acrofightier : 45 skill / 35 bullet

Acrotecher : 25 skill / 25 bullet / 35 tech

Another issue would be fortetecher, that buff without LB would put an end to MF, buffing the support/bullets and not the attack techs would help with that. Or raising to 45..

But I like it!

I can see those Acrofighter changes being fine, but you also have to realize that Acrofighter's damage right now is their end game. It isn't going to get much better than this (aside from the little bit of damage from the remaining levels). Once Fighmaster gets Bloodspear Vlad Bram,  they will be out damaging Acrofighter by a fair margin, since they will have their 3 weapons to suite most situations.

Acrotecher's damage isn't high by any means, using high 40% Divine Kamuis, I'm hitting around 3.7k on the last part of Infinite Storm and around 4.2k with Vivi Dezza with a 40% Cutie Crown. I think that increasing it to the full 30 / 30 / 40 / 50 would be fine.

As for Fortetecher, I don't think that would end Master Force by any means. Master Force gets 5% more base TP and faster casting speed. Sure, bullets gives them more utility for flying enemies, but MF still gets Noszonde and Nosmegid (which I do understand that bullets can in some situations out perform). Support TECHNICS will put Fortetecher ahead in TP, but the cast speed of Master Force should still out dps them, or at best, make them even (which is the point of the PA cap increase).

Edited August 27, 2019 by Valen

[Delta Violet+]

AF , yes they are at the endgame, but the magnification of some of these PAs from 40-50 are very high :

Zubba 40 - 50 / 380-450

Ranpa 40 - 50 / 1st part 330 - 380 / 2nd part 360 - 420 / 3rd 680 - 750

Spinning strike 40-50 / 1st part - 410 - 510 / 2nd part 530 - 630

Infinate storm 40-50 / 1st part 230 - 270 / 2nd part 270 - 310

Shousen -totsan 40-50 / 1st part 250 - 300 / 2nd part 270 - 330

renzan 40-50 / 1st part 330 - 350 / 2nd part 590 - 640 / 3rd part 760 - 820

The slicer however only increases by 10% which is more realistic, this worked on JP because you could only do 4? weapon types, Raising all striking PA’s to 50 and bullets to 40 ,isn’t going to set AF on par with FM, it’s just going surpass it xD,

I understand bloodspear isn’t currently available, but regardless of FM having the dark flow and ultimate chain = AF right now is the better class with gleaming/furin/assassin claw/rcsms working as intended.

Bloodspear or the ultimate Knight would tip the scales in favour of FM, but level50 striking arts for AF is a way over the top. That’s only a selection of PAs I’ve picked out, but there’s probs some I’m missing that benefit from this a lot more, that’s without factoring in the potential future nerf of dus skadd, which is inevitable. 

AT: I retract what I’ve said about AT, looked at some videos they could probs do with 30 skill etc

FT: Yes and yes but FT is already arguably a better class, but this is for different reasons altogether and a different conversation entirely, which is why I think FT is a tricky one.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Delta Violet+

[Sakarisei]

19 hours ago, FB Ice said:

The game is fine, it was fine then and it's really fine now. Hybrid clases have more vesatility of gameplay, which means they more easily fit different situations. That's good. I used to solo all the time and Guntecher felt infinitely better for that than Gunmaster in my opinion. This server has really low latency compared to official and weapon swaps are nearly seemless. Abuse that. Freeze an enemy then switch to a cross bow or use megid to take out some robots then double pistol what's left.

Just because a class isn't meta doesn't mean they're not fun and it doesn't mean they're not viable. If you keep buffing everything to the top, you still end up with imbalance only then throw in power creep for good measure.

Just... play the game for fun... it's an easy game already. That or just let's give every class jabroga and revert it back to before it missed. Or ignore me and theory craft away, I just want my stance to be known and don't have any problem with all the suggestions that are constantly here.

Just check the popularity of GT in... S3 or above. The same that WT. If you play many hours, you'll have the answer there.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Sakarisei

[KanameChidori]

Why do people think GAS allowed a type to gain 10 levels in an entire category? You didn't just get all skills to 40 or 50 you picked a weapon type and gave it 2 more levels, up to 10 total. That's it. You had a weapon skill limit.

[Delta Violet+]

41 minutes ago, KanameChidori said:

Why do people think GAS allowed a type to gain 10 levels in an entire category? You didn't just get all skills to 40 or 50 you picked a weapon type and gave it 2 more levels, up to 10 total. That's it. You had a weapon skill limit.

Yeah! You had 10 levels which would max out at lvl5 I think, Also believe humans had slightly more with 12-14 levels?

so iirc correctly, back then people had shousen-totsan at 48 and slicer at 42 then all points were used up. Or was it less than that, I forget.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Delta Violet+

[tFirstSavedLives]

1 hour ago, KanameChidori said:

Why do people think GAS allowed a type to gain 10 levels in an entire category? You didn't just get all skills to 40 or 50 you picked a weapon type and gave it 2 more levels, up to 10 total. That's it. You had a weapon skill limit.

No one said it did work that way you just like to complain,if you could actually explain why giving expert classes 10 levels to their PAs is going to destroy the fabric of PSU that'd be great.

The proposed change is to increase FUN in a video game, if the gaps between the classes was smaller that would be FUN.

I also don't see why people have a problem with Acrofighter keeping up with FM .

Also this is a test server that can remove changes if problems arise from proposed changes.

[Sakarisei]

1 hour ago, KanameChidori said:

Why do people think GAS allowed a type to gain 10 levels in an entire category? You didn't just get all skills to 40 or 50 you picked a weapon type and gave it 2 more levels, up to 10 total. That's it. You had a weapon skill limit.

Yes, but at the end of the game, you were forced to get a very specific build of GAS if you could challenge with the Master classes & AT, the most powerful classes in EOL.

Even FFs were forced to get different weaponry for avoiding to compete with FM in terms of dealing the same thing... but worse.

[FB Ice]

24 minutes ago, Sakarisei said:

Yes, but at the end of the game, you were forced to get a very specific build of GAS if you could challenge with the Master classes & AT, the most powerful classes in EOL.

Even FFs were forced to get different weaponry for avoiding to compete with FM in terms of dealing the same thing... but worse.

I still think it's wrong to argue that because something is meta that it's the only way to play. The GAS was made for customization. It specifically allowed you to go off meta. It was also something to work towards in the end of life, the last thing we need to do is remove even more end game progression from an extremely linear game. 

I can also absolutely promise you if this change were implemented, the meta would shift and then people would want THAT meta changed.

If you want to min-max and parse your DPS to see how high you can go, do it, but it's never going to be the case that every class is acutally equal. Fortefighter was never meant to compete with Fighmaster's damage output. They get more weapon variety and more tank. How is that not an ok tradeoff? If you want more damage go for it, but a change like this would be just as bad at forcing certain play styles as the current system.

Finally, this was only brought up because new content was released. How is balancing the game around an incomplete state going to make the game balanced down the road?

[KanameChidori]

58 minutes ago, tFirstSavedLives said:

No one said it did work that way you just like to complain,if you could actually explain why giving expert classes 10 levels to their PAs is going to destroy the fabric of PSU that'd be great.

The proposed change is to increase FUN in a video game, if the gaps between the classes was smaller that would be FUN.

I also don't see why people have a problem with Acrofighter keeping up with FM .

Also this is a test server that can remove changes if problems arise from proposed changes.

A ton of people, just making all skills or bullets to 40 or 50 on expert types is not the best solution. I never even post on here, how  am I complaining, I was simply mentioning how GAS did function..you douche. Interesting an account that only has 1 or 2 posts defending Valen, since my post wasn't in agreement. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by KanameChidori

[ImLucyMiya]

I agree with this post but HP Affects power wasnt nerfed, it was fixed so that it is using the correct % boost.

[tFirstSavedLives]

 

31 minutes ago, KanameChidori said:

A ton of people, just making all skills or bullets to 40 or 50 on expert types is not the best solution. I never even post on here, how the am I complaining, I was simply mentioning how GAS did function..you douche.

Find me one if there're a ton,No one said 40-50 on expert types IS the best solution OR that it was how official functioned.It's really obvious OP had to search what GAS was before they even made the post and decided giving full benefits would cause little to no*(mostly no)* balance issues.
.You "never" post but every time I see you,you invent a stance someone doesn't even have and say it's wrong.

Edited August 28, 2019 by tFirstSavedLives

[KanameChidori]

8 minutes ago, tFirstSavedLives said:

 

Find me one if there's a ton,No one said 40-50 on expert types IS the best solution OR that it was how official functioned.It's really obvious OP had to search what GAS was before they even made the post and decided giving full benefits would cause little to no*(mostly no)* balance issues.
.You "never" post but every time I see you,you invent a stance someone doesn't even have and say it's wrong.

Who are you even talking about? Like 95% of my post tend to be in agreement with the majority (or simply add to the conversation)...I can take whatever stance I want. That has nothing to do with anything you've mentioned period. 

[tFirstSavedLives]

Just now, KanameChidori said:

Who are you even talking about? Like 95% of my post tend to be in agreement with the majority (or simply add to the conversation)...I can take whatever stance I want. That has nothing to do with anything you've mentioned period. 

You either think pretending to ignore my point is going to help you or you actually can't understand words I type.

[KanameChidori]

Just now, tFirstSavedLives said:

You either think pretending to ignore my point is going to help you or you actually can't understand words I type.

Sure thing.

[tFirstSavedLives]

Just now, KanameChidori said:

Sure thing.

Sure dude

[FB Ice]

 

7 minutes ago, tFirstSavedLives said:

 

Find me one if there's a ton,No one said 40-50 on expert types IS the best solution OR that it was how official functioned.It's really obvious OP had to search what GAS was before they even made the post and decided giving full benefits would cause little to no*(mostly no)* balance issues.
.You "never" post but every time I see you,you invent a stance someone doesn't even have and say it's wrong.

I may be misunderstanding you and OP, but I thought the point of this was to just go into the data and edit it so everybody gets some level 50s. That wasn't how GAS worked. You had points to spend and could increase like one weapon's PAs a lot or a few from say 30-31. Just rebalancing the classes by making them all level 50s would be magnittudes greater than the changes made by GAS, and it would make the GAS, when implemented, pointless.

If this is all for a sort of hot fix, you guys should know by now that giving people a hot fix and then taking it away is just going to upset first one, then the other group of players, so I don't think that's what's happening.

 

GAS looks hype as fuck. I want to try it when it's implemented. Finally a system to reward late game grinding.

[tFirstSavedLives]

15 minutes ago, FB Ice said:

 

I may be misunderstanding you and OP, but I thought the point of this was to just go into the data and edit it so everybody gets some level 50s. That wasn't how GAS worked. You had points to spend and could increase like one weapon's PAs a lot or a few from say 30-31. Just rebalancing the classes by making them all level 50s would be magnittudes greater than the changes made by GAS, and it would make the GAS, when implemented, pointless.

If this is all for a sort of hot fix, you guys should know by now that giving people a hot fix and then taking it away is just going to upset first one, then the other group of players, so I don't think that's what's happening.

 

GAS looks hype as fuck. I want to try it when it's implemented. Finally a system to reward late game grinding.

Yeah I see how it could be a problem if you assume GAS only affected PA levels (it doesn't).
If GAS is implemented it would only matter *after* this testing server we are in is *wiped*.
Good thing this change is during a testing server,I wouldn't say this is strictly a response to recent content people have repeatedly asked for this.

Edited August 28, 2019 by tFirstSavedLives

[FB Ice]

17 minutes ago, tFirstSavedLives said:

Yeah I see how it could be a problem if you assume GAS only affected PA levels (it doesn't).
If GAS is implemented it would only matter *after* this testing server we are in is *wiped*.
Good thing this change is during a testing server,I wouldn't say this is strictly a response to recent content people have repeatedly asked for this.

Aaaaaaah. I thought this was straight up "Give all classes level 50 PAs forever". That changes my stance to a degree. I'd still rather play without that change but I mean I'd be down for it for testing purposes.

Wartecher with 50 whips tho is gonna be bonkers.

[Delta Violet+]

2 hours ago, tFirstSavedLives said:

I also don't see why people have a problem with Acrofighter keeping up with FM .

AF has been keeping up with FM for about 2 months now, and right now currently imo is the best class.

As an AF main I want my class to be just as good as FM, But raising every AF striking to 50 is just ridiculous, have you seen the modifier increases from 40-50? Dont want to be rude but this isn’t even a debate. Even all striking PAs 45 for AF is worrying if/when skadd gets its nerf. Which again will happen XD

If this does get traction and they decide to do this = With all due respect to you for reigniting this subject..(do like the majority of it) but I think they should try bobbys numbers first and go from that. Why overshoot when you can test it halfway yanno.

 

 

[tFirstSavedLives]

3 minutes ago, Delta Violet+ said:

AF has been keeping up with FM for about 2 months now, and right now currently imo is the best class.

As an AF main I want my class to be just as good as FM, But raising every AF striking to 50 is just ridiculous, have you seen the modifier increases from 40-50? Dont want to be rude but this isn’t even a debate. Even all striking PAs 45 for AF is worrying if/when skadd gets its nerf. Which again will happen XD

If this does get traction and they decide to do this = With all due respect to you for reigniting this subject..(do like the majority of it) but I think they should try bobbys numbers first and go from that. Why overshoot when you can test it halfway yanno.

 

 

I don't see a problem with a damage class being good at damage,are you personally nerfing Skadd? Are you in the dev's ear? If Acrofighter is better than skadd why does Skadd need to be nerfed?

This *is* a debate btw it's on a public forum asking for feedback and proposing a change.

25 people so far seem ok with the proposed numbers,Why test halfway when you can give the maximum benefit to test.

Overshooting would be above level 50 PAs I can't believe I have to point that out.

 

[Time]

27 minutes ago, Delta Violet+ said:

AF has been keeping up with FM for about 2 months now, and right now currently imo is the best class.

 

 

 

Uhhhh AF has not been keeping up with FM at all until zeta came out , renzan couldn't kill trash as fast as spiral dance or skadd and slicers were piss poor in party play not to mention their horrible boss damage.....

Edited August 28, 2019 by Time

[KanameChidori]

15 minutes ago, Time said:

Uhhhh AF has not been keeping up with FM at all until zeta came out , renzan couldn't kill trash as fast as spiral dance or skadd and slicers were piss poor in party play not to mention their horrible boss damage.....

Horrible boss damage from Slicers or as a whole? Because Sekka is one of the best boss killers in the game and naturally Slicers would be shit for bosses.

[Delta Violet+]

11 minutes ago, tFirstSavedLives said:

I don't see a problem with a damage class being good at damage,are you personally nerfing Skadd? Are you in the dev's ear? If Acrofighter is better than skadd why does Skadd need to be nerfed?

This *is* a debate btw it's on a public forum asking for feedback and proposing a change.

25 people so far seem ok with the proposed numbers,Why test halfway when you can give the maximum benefit to test.

Overshooting would be above level 50 PAs I can't believe I have to point that out.

 

Quite the defensive creature aren’t you.

Acrofighter is better than skadd right now, yes. I’ve already said this but I’ll entertain it by answering it again,  when ultimate knight / blood spear comes out, the tables turn and FM will be back on top. Which brings us to when I spoke about skadd = I’m not in any devs ear Atall, the mods have mentioned this on multiple occasions that when they start balancing PAs that skadd will most likely get a nerf.

It’s not much of a debate if you can’t understand the 40-50 modifiers. Correct.

25 people would like to see the other classes have more playtime, which Im completely FOR , and have said “I like it” don’t exaggerate. The same reason when testing rare missions they shouldn’t go from 4% - 11%. Raising numbers until it fits is just a better method.