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Kyu

A Change to the Grinding System

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Hello Clementine, I'm coming to you today with a post regarding an upcoming change to the grinding system in the next update.

This post will be geared towards explaining what about it will be different, why the system is changing again, and why we think it will be better than the current system.

Let's get the important thing out of the way.

  • The grinding system will be reverting back to official's grinding system, meaning weapon breaks are making a return.

Now, before you freak out, I want to reassure you that your weapons can still be saved and repaired back to max potential (0/10) with some new items that have been developed.

Weapon Repair items are making their first debut in Clementine to accompany the grinding system change.
These new items, technically grinders, can be bought from the Dallgun Viewing Plaza NPC for a certain amount of meseta based on the rank of the repair item.
There are four weapon repair items, all based on the ranks in-game of C, B, A, and S.
Weapon Repair C will cost 100K meseta. Weapon Repair B will cost 300K meseta. Weapon Repair A will cost 7.5M meseta. Weapon Repair S will cost 10M meseta.
These Weapon Repair items, when used, will restore +1 to the max grind of the weapon. For example, if your weapon is currently grinded to 8/9, using a weapon repair item will restore the weapon's grind status to 8/10.

Now, why is the system changing back to official?

One thing we noticed is that SEGA designed this game in a very specific way, and after examining the current grinding system with how the core game is designed in terms of loot, the current grinding system is more of a detriment than anything.
The game is designed around lots of loot dropping, and the grinding system on official was designed with that in mind. A lot of you were very unhappy with how the drop rates for things like Area Drops were for v2, which was remedied slightly in v3. The initial reason for those absurdly low rates was taking the current grinding system into account.
Because of that, it caused a lot of unnecessary frustration when trying to farm for drops because of the insanely low drop rates. Only 1 of that item was needed to secure a max grind of 10/10 (disregarding the amount of meseta needed to get that), although the variable of attribute was still in play.

We realized that official's grinding system was indeed better for the game from a strict design standpoint regardless of how you might feel about weapons breaking, otherwise drop rates would have to stay low to compensate for the grinding system.
We believe that changing the grinding system back to official will bring back the charm of hunting for weapons, but adding in our own little spice to make it not as awful, as well as removing the real money aspect grinding had on official.
The Weapon Repair items should give the player a choice with grinding their weapons. "Should I spend meseta to fix the max grind on this rare weapon, or is this weapon common enough to go farm another one and try again?"
The team really wanted to drive home the choice to keep the max potential for a super rare weapon by spending meseta, or going out and farming another one if you so desire.
Since this is the first iteration, we don't expect it to be perfect, but we definitely expect it to be better than the current system that's being used (although without synthesis it might not feel that great). The lack of players might also contribute to a less populated market for the grinders.

Now, you might be asking yourself, "Why is the system changing if no one is really grinding anyway from the lack of obtainable grinders?"

With that, I'm happy to let you know that grinders are making their debut into normal Areas temporarily until Synthesis is complete.
Every Area will have 1-2 droppable grinders, and rare missions have had their grinder drop rates increased.
Grinders for normal areas will have higher rates than weapons.
Grinders have also been removed from the Dallgun shop, so feel free to price grinders as you please.
It's our hope that being able to farm grinders will bring back the normal feeling of grinding that official had until you can synthesize them in your room.
We'll be looking to improve the rates for grinders if they feel too low, but this is not a guarantee that they will be raised.

I ask that you please try this new system and give us constructive feedback on how it feels. 
Since you all are used to the current system, it will feel weird at first, but please try to understand why it should be more effective in the long run, as well as how it works better with the design of the game.

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This is amazing thanks guys!

 

EDIT: I am assuming the grinders we will be getting will be able to be sold on our own player shops to other players correct? If so thats will be nice being able to make a steady income!

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WE LOVE YOU KIU
This server is very quickly becoming something of great magnificence. Keep up the great work team!

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Stop right there, criminal scum.

 

You've violated the law, pay the fine or suffer the consequences.

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Grinders dropping, breaking coming back, and repairing being a thing is awesome. However, I do think that the prices for repair should be based off of rarity and tweaked a little on top of that. I basically wouldn't ever pay 10m to repair an S rank unless it is top 3, most being 15 stars, so making 10 stars more affordable to repair would be nice. A ranks as well, I wouldn't even think of paying 7.5m for an A rank unless I happened to have gotten a 50% weapon that is top 3, an example being Vitace Reacher. 2m - 3m seems more viable as an option there. We'll have to see how this plays out after the update comes out, but I don't see it being used on the vast majority of weapons as it currently is.

Thanks for the big update, I can see you guys are hard at work brainstorming up some ideas, I do wish these thoughts would be shown to the community for feedback before hand though.

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Posted (edited)

Keep in mind A ranks are best in slot for a lot of classes.

Edit: They also break less often.

Edited by FB Ice

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Posted (edited)

C will cost 100K meseta.         Weapon Repair B will cost 300K meseta.        Weapon Repair A will cost 7.5M meseta.        Weapon Repair S will cost 10M meseta.

                😊                                                              😚                                                                         🤢                                                                     🤮 

 

Cool idea 🙂 But i think some things may need addressed

Edited by Delta Violet+

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1 minute ago, Delta Violet+ said:

C will cost 100K meseta.         Weapon Repair B will cost 300K meseta.        Weapon Repair A will cost 7.5M meseta.        Weapon Repair S will cost 10M meseta.

                😊                                                              😚                                                                         🤢                                                                     🤮 

He’s not wrong...

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We will recognize the poor with their full pallet of 5/5 and 6/6. Cant wait to laugh at them.

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Just now, Aelphasy said:

We will recognize the poor with their full pallet of 5/5 and 6/6. Cant wait to laugh at them.

I'll have you know I found my 6/6 C rank tippies prestigious. It's hard to fail that hard.

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But when you think about it it's a good idea. The grinders will sell permanently, it will boost the economy and surely stabilize prices. When you need money for grinders, you don't undercut price too much, I think.

We will see after a few days how it works.

9 minutes ago, FB Ice said:

I'll have you know I found my 6/6 C rank tippies prestigious. It's hard to fail that hard.

There's a beginning to everything ! And you'll be able to fix it in a few hours, I'm sure it's very emotionnal. Feeling all weird inside ?

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1 minute ago, Aelphasy said:

But when you think about it it's a good idea. The grinders will sell permanently, it will boost the economy and surely stabilize prices. When you need money for grinders, you don't undercut price too much, I think.

We will see after a few days how it works.

There's a beginning to everything ! And you'll be able to fix it in a few hours, I'm sure it's very emotionnal. Feeling all weird inside ?

My bad, I meant on official. I had a thing for taking the rare joke weapons and breaking them as far as i could.

 

I haven't played clementine seriously yet, and for that reason I think balance can come later. Obviously the amounts can change once the game has a stable release. I know you dudes here are super into the game like right now, but you have to admit - the economy, aside from as a test subject, doesn't really matter now. There will be a lot of time for adjustments, so to say something isn't working for you before the patch is even online is a little ridic. Besides, I'm a purist. Official had a way to unbreak weapons. You paid real dollars. I think a steep fee is in line with that. While you farm up that extra 10 mil, your 8/8 won't kill you. That's part of how the game's always worked. That being said, I'm looking forwards to whatever I get. I'm not tryna sound grumpy on here.

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I thought stupidly that you were talking about clementine, my bad, I'm tired lol

Anyway I think it's way overpriced 7.5 and 10 millions like said above. It will rather dissuade the players, and curb them to invest in grinders. Something like 2,5 and 5mil should be more reasonable.

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9 minutes ago, Aelphasy said:

I thought stupidly that you were talking about clementine, my bad, I'm tired lol

Anyway I think it's way overpriced 7.5 and 10 millions like said above. It will rather dissuade the players, and curb them to invest in grinders. Something like 2,5 and 5mil should be more reasonable.

What's up with the economy right now that people aren't going to invest in grinders? the +10s were worth quite a bit already (in shops), so as a percentage increase, the 10 million isn't even necessarily that high. Like I said, though, I have ZERO experience in clementine's economy. I'm just saying to keep in mind, without wipes, gold is worth a lot less. on official people just kinda had stacks if you played a lot, until they let you trade in stacks for the gold bars on jp. It's like on PSO. On official there was pretty high turnover, so money meant something. NOW full stacks are just converted as you get them into items to trade because meseta means so, so little. spheres on that game sphereing (the equivalent of grinding) had spheres that cost several stacks. Last I played, 20. I'm just saying - see how the economy plays out first before you think 10 m is a lot. I'm not saying it WON'T be a lot, just that it may not be.

Edit: Besides. It doesn't matter if it takes 10 million to unbreak a halorod or some cheap 10 star. Just buy a new one. If grinding repairing costs more than replacing a weapon, you won't need to repair it, and if it costs less, then it's still a value purchase. Common "rares" will be cheap as dirt once the game has a stable market, and keep in mind - this is an alternative to the vanilla NOT being able to fix the weapons. On official weapons breaking sucked, but it wasn't the end of the world. People just avoided grinding past 8 or so on weapons they really cared about until they got a second one. It added depth to the looting. If it weren't for grinding I would have just casually had a maxed character with nothing to play for.

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I think it's a good thing to make various attempts.

The only thing I want to say is that you should avoid situations where it's natural and essential to have a 10/10 item like PSO2.
It narrows the use of many items and is really boring

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22 hours ago, FB Ice said:

I'll have you know I found my 6/6 C rank tippies prestigious. It's hard to fail that hard.

how can you see other peoples weapons? i tried but it doesnt show anything.

is this working?

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8 hours ago, suou_t said:

The only thing I want to say is that you should avoid situations where it's natural and essential to have a 10/10 item like PSO2.

It was really never nearly as essential in this game. If it happened on official you were lucky, if you had an 8/8.... you were still completely viable for everything except the most competitive of speed running.

 

7 hours ago, delukard said:

is this working?

Not currently entirely. A few things show, but not all the information.

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On 8/22/2019 at 1:58 AM, Delta Violet+ said:

C will cost 100K meseta.         Weapon Repair B will cost 300K meseta.        Weapon Repair A will cost 7.5M meseta.        Weapon Repair S will cost 10M meseta.

                😊                                                              😚                                                                         🤢                                                                     🤮 

 

Cool idea 🙂 But i think some things may need addressed

Basically, at those prices, I won't be touching grinding. I don't even have the meseta for one A rank weapon repair currently.

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The drop rates for grinders seems to be good. (according what we can see in shop)

But the current system has (only ?) one problem: the price of Weapon Repair. It's a double frustration : having broken our weapons and having to redo everything but also paid twice (both grinders and WR). Increase the drop rates for grinders wont change that. I think this system is good, but you absolutely have to change prices for WR.  Otherwise it will be counter productive and it will disgust people.

My suggestion 

WR C : 25k

WR B : 50k

WR A : 1,5mil 

WR S : 3mil (which is already a lot for many, knowing that you have to pay the grinders again)

These prices are more accurate, without it being easy to have 10/10. Just a lot less frustrating and more motivating for the players.

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Posted (edited)

Alternative idea that seems even better :

Remove the Weapon Repair and take away the "back to 0" if the grind fail. (Exemple my blackbull is 6/10, try to go 7, but it failed : the 6/10 became 6/9)

1) It dont break the design, and those really want a 10/10 will have to put the effort into it (but the effort without the frustration) means farming for another one.

2) The frustration of the failure will be mitigated by the fact that if I decide to grind my Cursed Dark Flow, I know anyway that the weapon will be more powerful, at least 3/3 or 4/4 if I use S+7 and above

3) Better economy : if I know I can make my weapon more powerful, see 2), then I would buy.

Edited by Aelphasy

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i dont play a lot but it seems i am out of luck for so much as i can not keep up with the cost of things in game.

small scale the grinders are not dropping much 6 runs of protecters one grinder and a few unsafe fight for food and no grinders but 4 non grinder drops

does it seem like protecters has a reduced drop rate??

 

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