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Armor and Unit Balance, and Suggestions


Lupophobia
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Bugei is a decent armor set that drops off pretty early on if you don't have it's required weapons and alot of them aren't too viable either, making it a less reliable set to use. It would be nice to see this armor set have similar treatment to that of Shijin/Ouryu which is less conditional and has very similar set effects, as it stands bugei and shijin are too similar, except for bugei needing specific weapons to be become somewhat stronger / tankier. My suggestion is to add an leg unit to the set that functions much similar to that of Ouryu, but would be striking oriented, such as another rainbow unit. or if its an arm unit, make it like a lesser variant of Master swordsman, with more emphasis on amplifying accuracy. Perhaps even make the set striking class only so others wouldn't use it for a gunner class to balance it out and keep it true to it's form. for a 13* unit I feel Bugei should stand out more, especially due to how restrictive it is, and classes like acrofighter or FM wouldnt make much use for it unless there was an option for a rarity change on some of these weapons or a better alternative.

It would be nice to see more armor get rebalanced around  different types of play styles instead of everyone rushing for Ryukoh for that power increase/ resistance due to it being one of the best units in the game with its resistance.
Shijin+ouryu set up is pretty decent, but the 200% speed increase while also still having similar results to hyakka is questionable considering it needs two parts to perform much similarly to a single unit.

Sooner or later Quebbler will be added to the game, and its a very strong gunner based armor set. wouldn't it be nice if it had better use with more ranged weapons in the game instead of it being restricted to just a few handful?

There should be a set specifically for play styles.
Striking Focus only
Ranged Only
Tech Only


Hybrid armor sets.
Striking + range
Striking + Tech
Range + tech


Defensive only sets
Focus on pure survivability
Defense/Eva
End/Ment
defense/Ment
Status Immunity

What I don't mean that these set should only focus on those particular stats. Because bugei is a great example of a defensive striking set that brings up more attention to what striking players (Fighmasters) tend to lack: Mental Defense, And Endurance while also granting some extra defense and striking power. (though accuracy would be nice but MS fixes that later anyway.)

I think armor design should focus on a flaw of each type of play style instead of just being raw power increases.
What are your opinions?

Edited by Lupophobia
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To sum up, more "builds", better designed. Better to do that when endgame, to have a clear picture of what would be "good"/revelant/fun etc to do + even if balance is close to be good, maybe some stuff need to be polished before working on custom set, but yes would be nice.

 

edit : since we already had some good custom stuff, this will probably happen again in coming months/years anyway.

Edited by Aelphasy
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Like the idea! Just some small suggestions to go with it.

To me "build" means you play the same class or use the same weapons but the way you use it is different. For instance between two Striking characters, one might rely more on counters, one might rely more on super armoring. So both will want ATP and ATA, but one might want EVP more than Elemental  % or MST, and that's where the sets they want might be different.

It would be fun to have some trollish sets too. Like a Senba that gives a ridiculous ATP set bonus with a weapon associated with Newmans, like Yohmei Twin Daggers... but is only equippable by Newman only. Or a Rabol for Beasts that gives a similar ginormous ATA set bonus with Tenora Crossbows or Shotguns. A Line for Casts to give a huge TP set bonus with GRM TCSMs and so on.

Or maybe a line shield that boosts the outdated 10⭐ weapons so that they're worth grinding (though they should still be quite some way behind the best in slot of course).

There's really a lot of things to explore with all the drops being left on the wayside right now.

Edited by Selphea
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It would also make more sense since each race has different needs, and play styles, and not everyone plays one particular race because "stats" but rather because they simply enjoy that race. But that idea of troll sets...  Man no defense but full power?  sounds like AF/Ranger heaven to me.

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Absolutely love the idea of making use out of things that on their own arn't so. Honestly, even crazy things like an armor set that gives +200% bonus to B weapons. I don't know if anyone would care, but it would make things that have zero interest into things of use.

Also, troll weapons/armors are totally wanted. (By me at least heh!)

Real_Hand_Gun.jpg

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Having a set that amplifies the damage of B rank armors would make going back to beginner classes to grind them out a unique experience if someone needs to unlock other hybrid classes further, Maybe a set for boosting the effectiveness of A rank weapons by 10% when equipped by a class that uses alot of A Ranks? Or a set that has improved PP regen/Reduced PP consumption? Those would be nice.

But more importantly, there should be sets that address the weakness of other races in combination with certain classes, While also providing sets to accommodate that further enhance their capabilities, besides just raw power (even though this is a good standard.) Maybe a "When this set is equipped by a [Race]" The additional stats will apply, ATP^^, EVA^, DEF^, Attack PP Regen ^^, PP usage Down, and so on. As it stands, certain race's like Newman are kind of evolving into a sort of human-esque alternative with high TP, Considering they have bonuses in classes like Fighgunner, when originally Beasts and Casts used to have a bonus in it, but that was removed, I'll assume due to racial bias, which is something that needs to be taken into consideration since from the start, humans and newmans also have SUVs now. Personally I would've given a bonus to every fighter based class to beast, and a bonus to every gunner based class to Casts, the only exception i would say would be acrotecher due to it being primarily focused on tech support. But everyone has a different view point on classes, which is why having sets to compliment these playstyles would be the better option, rather than one set that just does everything, and is overall just another stat upgrade. 

Back in the illuminus collusion event, Beekeeper set got released, but was incredibly conditional. The set effects were fantastic, but the extra slot had an issue where exterminator was incredible hard to find, So if you wanted to use the set, it wasnt usually optimal for either striking/ranged based classes that were of Cast/Human/Newman race, because the only alternative was pollinator, and that did not give you an SUV for back up. So you were handicapped by RNG if you wanted the set effect. while races like beasts have a much easier time since nanoblast is unconditional, and having an extra slot is always free. the implementation of SUV's in base PSU was always complicated, And would've been better if you can just go to the salon and equip a non-existant tattoo for your SUV selection, and have it grow as you level. 

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That's a very good point with these modified armors @Lupophobiato help balance out the races evenly across all classes, rather than just the ones they specialize in. 

From what I remember in on the OG servers, CAST's SUVs were always superior to Human/Newman ones and even Nanoblasts. Currently, it seems that Human/Newman's SUVs are better than before, but I still wouldn't consider them as good as CAST's. Nanoblasts are stronger than before, however they've always been situational and beasts have the most weaknesses to balance out that power. 

So currently:
CASTs: +Powerful SUV -Unavailable extra slot
Beasts: +Strong Nanoblast -Crippling ATA
Humans/Newmans: +Weak SUV or available extra slot

Giving Humans/Newmans weaker versions of CAST SUVs was very dumb IMO. Why not give them awesome extra slots or armor sets that buff them in different ways? (Did someone say attack speed? 😉) Your idea Lupo could help out with this greatly. Maybe give an extra slot that gives +300 TP but only CASTs can wear it? So a CAST could be a decent techer if they wish, but at the cost of their SUV? What if there was an armor or unit that gives a static bonus to beasts depending on what badge they took? +ATP for red, + DFP for blue, +ATA for yellow, +STA for purple?

Not sure any of this is possible, as usual, but the idea is great all the same! 👍

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2 minutes ago, Seority said:

What if there was an armor or unit that gives a static bonus to beasts depending on what badge they took? +ATP for red, + DFP for blue, +ATA for yellow, +STA for purple?

Not sure any of this is possible, as usual, but the idea is great all the same! 👍

I stayed silent about this but I had this EXACT IDEA. Except it would be blue for TP and STA, ATP+HP for Red, Yel had guarenteed hits during nano but+high accuracy as a stat modifier when nanoblast isnt active, and purp would have High Def/MST with a minor boost to ATP/TP to keep up with the other types. 

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Another thing I guess I should point out is Bugei-Senba missing some of the weapons for set effects like on the wiki, Like Yonohate/akatsuki series, Rengokuto Rensa/Ensa/Guren, But i think thats just as design decision as these weapons aren't in the current version of clementine. which is alittle bothersome considering its being overshadowed by shijin immediately,since shijin has hidden stats even though it isnt listed on wiki/ less conditional but its also 15* so there's that.. Though rarity doesnt really make sense anyway since red line is also better, and arguably more conditional even though it covers most fields, its just locked behind rare missions and incredibly rare/expensive.  
Bugei should be better when weapons like Yonohate-In are in with its insane attack + 10% PA damage modifier, and life steal. There would actually be an option to choose bugei over shijin so you could benefit from it's +8 stamina on FM, along with Rengokuto Rensa, which is a very decent DS that has HP  affects power lvl 3(30% at 1HP or 15% at 50%) but statistically, the set effects are on the low-end side considering they only cover one singular stat, and have no hidden stats, It should derserve to be better honestly considering how it seems to address a flaw that  FM has, which is low STA, but at the same time could've been re-balanced to better suit Masterclasses over all on survivability, The issue is that the set was designed around a theme, and a stylized series of weapons, which are more ninja/samurai warrior themed, though it would be nicer if claws, partisans, and some of the yasminokov series had a set effect with this set too. that way it would also benefit GM, I would say the only class that probably doesnt need it is MF as most MF are usually human/newman players, and with enough ele/MST they would be to resist it, and would probably go the shijin route due to the set having TP. 

I'm keeping in mind that while yes vijeri / resist exist, not everyone has one / has the funds to own it.

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Afaik they're approximately following JP's power curve so the stronger weapons and later game stuff aren't in yet. For instance the JP Photon Arts are only coming when S3 is added, so the weapons you mentioned should be coming in due time.

Edited by Selphea
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  • 2 weeks later...

Was thinking about another alternative to Bugei Senba.

Make it a copy cat of Shijin, Shijin would still be better initially, since shijin has hidden stats, even though its not currently listed to wiki.
The difference would be that it would require Hyakka instead of Ouryu, also add 100 tech.
Move the set effect to having the head slot unit only, and additionally, allow the following to also benefit from this set:
Ten'imuso, Hyakkaryouran, Gekka, Gekkavijin, Shippu, Shippujinlai

This would make the set favorable to both striking and tech users before ryukoh is released.

Bonus, Allow Bugei-Senba to be upgraded using Jou'un Soul + materials while retaining its original element, or allow for exchanges that gaurenteed 50%
(because having a 50% and losing it sucks but we will most likely have Upgrade device hopefully to remedy this) 

This would exchange for a new armor called  Jou'un Line/Weave/Shield/Senba/Senpai, it would retain it's set bonus with Hyakka, but with the following changes:
250 striking, 300 tech.
Additionally, a new set bonus that includes the weapon's listed, and in addition a few new ones:
Gekka, Shippu, Shippujinlai, Gekkavijin, Ten'imuso... and Shippudotoh(and all variations of it.)
The armor could have hidden stats like +2Endurance, +50ATP +50ACC 50 tech
The new additional set bonus would be +150 Striking and +450 Tech, when paired with existing weapons. I say tech because technically you can use something like kamui, sabers, while having an off hand TCSM, Which would make AT's/WT's potentially consider this an option, it would make the set very favorable for all sorts of striking classes. the combined total tech would be:700 tech+hyakka's 200 for a total of 900. sounds like alot until you consider the fact that ryukoh and yasakani exists. and together would be something like +700 tech. The trade off would be only that it works with the jou'un setup and for tcsms but not wands/rods as they would break the set effect by not having a matching weapon.
Striking would be: 900 when paired with masters, It would mean ultimately Ryukoh would end up being the more suited all rounded set for techers still with yasakani, but depending on play style, you may still opt for the new armor, while being superior for melee.

Also new armor is 15* and getting it would be as difficult/should be as difficult as getting ryukoh, but for it's setups, it would be easier to adapt to for striking, which is this set's main purpose, it just now has a new gimmick to it to keep it interesting. the trade for ryukoh being so less conditional is its waist pieces too, and works for any setup.



 

Edited by Lupophobia
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  • Lupophobia changed the title to Armor and Unit Balance, and Suggestions

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