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Revert grinding system at least til you can get repairs working or until a better system is created


biga diga
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Weapons not breaking ruins the market and its not fun sitting there for 2 hours til you get a 10/10. Grinding used to be exciting you dont need to have all 10/10s to beat missions only some weapons needed to be that but maybe they could just change the weapons to be more grinding friendly. Many others feel the same but dont care enough to make a forum post and I know some ppl that are not playing because its boring when everyone has a 10/10. I understand why the system got changed because of cry babies spamming the forum with how flawed the old system was but until they could come up with a better system they should of just left it cause this isnt the answer. Incap is flawed right now (RNG to kill monsters lol) but ppl wont mention that because its 'fun'. Maybe they should make it only work on robots kinda silly to one shot a monster with 55k+ hp.

 

Edited by biga diga
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  • biga diga changed the title to Revert grinding system at least til you can get repairs working or until a better system is created

PSU's grinding system as a whole is pretty garbage and disrespectful to the player's time, even in its current form, in my opinion. I have my own ideas on what I think should be done, but I have no idea if they could be done, and I think a lot of people would be unhappy with it, thus I don't suggest it.

 

That aside, the original system was completely and utterly disrespectful to the player's time and effort. I mean, unless I remember wrong, the original system could straight junk your weapon and you need to re-earn it. Even if it wasn't quite that, it's still why even Sega changed it back on official. It was a horrible system from the start. Then it became, "Oh, you have a very nice Double Agito there. Oh, you failed to grind it? Can't get its max potential. Go farm all those materials and the board again, and then hope you get a good elemental percentage on it so you can try again. Oh, you failed another 4 times? Can only get 5/5 now." Better, but it only exchanged one horrible bad for a less egregious bad. It's *still* a bad in the end.

 

No, that's not how a weapon upgrade system should EVER be. That's absolute garbage in my opinion. If you don't agree, I question if you've just grown complacent with the system. There are better options out there, they just need to be found, discussed, and hopefully made to function within the constraints of what PSU has set up.

 

Tedium does not equal difficulty. Learn the difference please. One is time consuming and not fun, the other is the presentation of an actual challenge in some capacity. The OG grinding system is NOT a challenge, it's a lottery. A horrible one at that. That's not even close to difficulty, and I don't understand how it can be called "exciting" to, in essence, have a d100 rolled on a chance of success for your weapon to succeed or fail.

 

Even with what Clem has here, I still hate it and find it still spits on the player. Difference is Clem's grinding system spits on your shoes, maybe your shirt at worst. The OG system spat in your face and rubbed it into your eyes, and then told you to get back to farming.

Edited by ScarletMel
Better spacing and rephrasing
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Well, tbh I'm not used to discuss in the forums since i have limited time, but... since it's not the 1st time which I see a topic related with grinding system, this time I think that I must write it for clarifying some issues with this topic.

In first place, I recommend to read @ScarletMel's post because basically that guy/gal has the right in terms of... in vanilla PSU (Not AOTI, vanilla), every time which a grind in a weapon failed, that weapon had been broken with no chance to recover. That's because later, in AotI, the grind system changed drastically since, for example, losing an important weapon like an Agito Repca with a higher element was catastrophic for the guy who had obtained it with tons of effort in terms of spending a lot of time... and although i didn't played PSU in official servers, I don't think that ppl needs to be clever for seeing the consequences of a system like it, but...

Even if that thing was replaced for reducing the max grind of the weps, i'll write my opinion about that system because although I didn't played in the AotI version excepting for a "free week" since a serious bug in the official servers of SEGA, I grinded tons of entire rainbow weapons as a fighter...

That system was made, maybe, for reaching to 5/10 or even 7/10 if the specific weapon is critical for the player as an average grind of the users, mainly because breaking a weapon means losing a lot of the value of the weapon. Yes, I know that we don't have GAS and the Full Custom Grinder ability of GAS for reaching in 10-20% the weapon damage of a 10/10. However, even if an ability or a skill like it existed in Clementine, really very few ppl will be encouraged to grind it, only to do it when in events when the grind boost appears as a feature of those events, and then seeing about how the "efforts" of accumulating the grinders for finding, for example, a 5/6 or even in the worst scenario casess, 1/2, is extremely discouraging for the users, even with counting with near all the helps for making the grind easier for them.

If for a gunner or a techer is screaming to see one of the rods or guns completely destroyed because that OG grind system, imagine the face of a fighter with one of the weapons of the rainbow of a specific weapon type completely shattered since that weapon came with very high element...

For finishing this topic, I can completely understand that people want to revert the grinding system for a flagrant ego in the past when playing the game. However, making changes just for ego is not the best solution, plus the majority of the community aren't teenagers with the permissiveness of playing tons of hour with near no responsibility in their lives.

Of course, that doesn't mean that I will stop playing psuc if the staff decided to revert the grinding system. Just, the last thing which I'll consider is grinding, even if a repair system appeared for "patching" it.

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It's a complex one!

The original system put the value on weapons, so relatively speaking, weapons were more valuable. And by design PSU weapons are fairly common compared to PSO1's Lavis Cannon hunts and such because they were meant to be broken until you can 10/10 one of them. But I agree breaking is dumb.

The current system puts the value on grinder quantity, so grinders are more valuable but that devalues the base weapons, which end up flooding the market, and many weapons are not worth grinding.

The ideal system IMO would be, you can select a copy of the same weapon as a "grinder" to grind it at 100% so that weapons are valuable for duplicate grinds and it solves the problem of spending hours to grind a weapon. It also helps drain all the 30% weapons from the market. If you select a weapon of the same class but it's not a duplicate grind then it's treated as an S +10. But I don't how the back-end tech looks like and whether it's possible.

An alternative system if the tech says you MUST select a specifically-designated Grinder-type item would be, you can break down weapons to make good grinders, like 9⭐ weapons give you A +20, 10⭐ weapons give you S +10, 11⭐ gives you S +20, 12⭐ Gives you S +30... something like that, exact numbers not set in stone.

tl;dr the grinding change is a good change, just needs polish. If I remember right the devs acknowledge this current system is not ideal either but the tech is tricky.

Edited by Selphea
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Quote

The ideal system IMO would be, you can select a copy of the same weapon as a "grinder" to grind it at 100% so that weapons are valuable for duplicate grinds and it solves the problem of spending hours to grind a weapon. It also helps drain all the 30% weapons from the market. If you select a weapon of the same class but it's not a duplicate grind then it's treated as an S +10. But I don't how the back-end tech looks like and whether it's possible.

An alternative system if the tech says you MUST select a specifically-designated Grinder-type item would be, you can break down weapons to make good grinders, like 9⭐ weapons give you A +20, 10⭐ weapons give you S +10, 11⭐ gives you S +20, 12⭐ Gives you S +30... something like that, exact numbers not set in stone.

Something close to that could be good. To keep value on both grinders and weapons. Another way to see it, that I've posted long ago : possiblity to "merge" a weapon similar, to gain +2% each time you merge, capped to 10. So if you plan to easily 10/10 your Caduceus, basically you can try now or wait to merge it with 5 others Caduceus, and have for w/e grinders you use, +10% (so something like 57% I think with a S+10 when 9/10 -> 10/10 or 81% with +5 to 4 -> 5 instead of 71, etc)

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  • 2 weeks later...
9 hours ago, Redtear said:

Maybe make it to where you have to sacrifice the same kind of weapon you’re grinding to unbreak it? I get both sides tbh I like the new system of grinding but I also understand how it ruins the market.p

This sounds like a good idea, but the issue currently is that drops are very scarce currently, so if you want to replenish an item it'll eat at the market currently. Low player base and very low drop rates that seem significantly less than the original is a bit problematic. it would lead to further inflation to existing items already, and there's already items selling for over 40mil+ due to rarity, and not everyone has the funds for this sort of thing. the old grinding system however, was pretty unforgiving. Losing out on your maximum potential was always problematic, but at least grinding was a bit easier...
The issue is, certain items like Agito repca/Happy Rappy Parasol,  kind of need to be 10/10 for it to even be considered decent. So i feel like the current system complements it, However it's already overshadowed by the fact that there's existing weapons that have a better starting value than those weapons, So people would just opt for those instead. Even with the current system, grinds are guaranteed to succeed at some point, but spending 500 grinders to get a weak S rank or A rank just doesn't make up for it.

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On 8/15/2021 at 9:40 PM, Lupophobia said:

This sounds like a good idea, but the issue currently is that drops are very scarce currently, so if you want to replenish an item it'll eat at the market currently. 

Agreed. When it comes to the super rare items, this would hurt substantially. However, there seems to be a flood of S ranks in player shops, but no one can grind them due to the S grinder costs. So, they stay extremely cheap and 0/10. For those weapons, this option would help recover their prices on the market.

If this system was implemented, whenever a rare (but not super rare) drops, it will sell for much more than NPC prices at the player shops, and there'll be more of these weapons grinded available. 

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Or just allow us to further mitigate the chance of failure with a time and effort investment that respects the players. I'll always maintain RNG for gear upgrades like this shouldn't be a thing, and is a bad function in a system that wants to encourage you to upgrade your gear, but in the same breath discourages it because the player's efforts aren't respected in the least. Why do it for even one weapon when you'll probably have to try like 100 times just because you were unlucky despite your best efforts? Now the idea of doing this for your entire weapon palette gets presented? Yeah, not doing it. Not worth the hassle cuz my time and effort won't be respected.

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I feel like a system in place to keep players from wasting their time grind would be a pity system to prevent things like a A rank from failing 450
(currently sitting at grind 263 on a OROCHI AGITO, then I reminded myself its a 43% and not a 50% prototype.. and it's pp was excessively low just for some really flashy and bright katana twin sabers.)
While I agree that the best weapons, shouldn't be easy to 10/10, I feel it's also silly that some of the strongest S ranks have similar attack scaling to an A ranks in some situations, But the rates for an S rank are significantly worse than an A rank.
I've stated this issue before that not all weapons were made equal and certain during an old CBT. But the answer was, "don't grind items that aren't BiS or waste money on them". Personally, I like to use items for their cosmetic appearance alot of the time, or have them elementally themed, But I know when to drop a weapon when it becomes obsolete. While the system does allow for any item to hit +10, It's still expensive, and it feels even harder than it used to be on official.
I'm not as lucky as other players, and I don't grind 24/7 as I'm burnt out from leveling alot of friends who don't even play anymore because illumines collusion gave them a bad impression of the game's difficulty scaling. So I seriously don't have the funds to pump out 10/10s all the time. When something takes forever to grind without any sort of pity system in place, it ruins the experience. The grinding system is always something that's going to be messy.. Do you devalue +10s? any make it easier for everyone to upgrade and make it lose it's value? Or do you want to make it more time consuming and expensive so when you do +10 players have a sense of reward? I'm not fond of the old "break my weapon so I lose out my maximum potential when I do fail" It's punishing players for a RNG system when weapons are already very scarce as is. It would be nice if the system in place only reduced your grind count by an amount, like 1~4 you can fail, but lose -1 to max grind, 5~8 you lose -2, 9~10 you lose all. A similar system to that of PSO2/some other mmo's, Or maybe when you find a weapon it has a chance to drop with a random grind value.

The issue with grinding is, it wouldn't be as much problem if it was just one weapon, but its the fact that players use multiple weapons, usually 6 or more if you use one-handed weapons, or even more stashed away in their inventory for quick swapping depending on the situation. and each one of them have to go through numerous failures, easily thousands of grinders for all the weapons to hit +10 only for it to become obsolete in the next patch.

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