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Possible Improvements to Increase Party making Across the Server(s)


Adooma
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Global All Mission Counter:

I'm convinced I remember either using this (probably NOT), or heard that it was coming (and came to) the official (now closed) Japanese PSU system. At a guess, the counter was perhaps located in Guardian Centres.

So you could go to that counter, and see ALL available currently active parties, across all 75 (NOT sure of exact quantity) possible counters, throughout the system(s).

The (problem/limit/weakness) of the existing system, is that there (may well be), many parties occurring at various different planets/missions etc, but it is NOT practicable to know about them, as to go to all of them would take ages, cost much meseta in traveling fees, and would be mostly unsuccessful, as usually most places are empty, most of the time.

 

Automatic Mixed Play Level Adaptation System:

Issues when there are plenty of parties at your location (mission counter), e.g. Raffon Field Base. But some are too low a level for your current character/player to want to join, and the others might be at too high a level, to allow one to play/join. Hence leaving someone who wants to party, without any parties that they an actually play (unless they accept perhaps a C rank party, with a level 5 player and a non-PA'ed handgun, against your level 80 (or whatever), who could play A/S level missions, with much better payouts, exp/MP and drops.

One solution, is to allow the system to create the same basic map. But allow each player to experience a monster level, suited to their current player/type level.

So, let's say there is a monster, with basic HP of 2,000 (the other parameters could be adjusted in a similar way).

Consider 3 players, A = level 10 newbie, B = Level 50, C = level 100 player.

The system could automatically scale up or down the monsters HP, damage etc, depending on the particular players level/type etc.

So, the monster hits player A (level 10), with a basic 1,000 point hit (it gets auto rescaled down to say 200), so player A (level 10), gets 200 points worth of damage.

Similarly, player A hits the monster, with 100 points worth of damage (the system pretends they were playing a level C map), and so scales up that damage to 1,000 points of damage. When that monster finally expires, Player A is given a level C map monster worth of exp (perhaps 50 exp points).

When player C (level 100), hits the monster, the system pretends it was a level S or even S2 map, so scales down the damage, accordingly. Similarly, the monster does damage to Player C (level 100), as if it was an S2 level map, as the damage gets scaled up. When that monster finally expires, the exp gets scaled up to be on par with a Level S2 map.

Hence a map can be played by 1 .. 200 level players, who can simultaneously party together. This would then also increase the potential for more people to party together.

Similarly, when the monster expires, the meseta/item drops, will be automatically scaled up or down, depending on what map level the system chose for that player level.

There would probably need to be anti-cheat, anti-easy-farming techniques, to prevent any possible abuse of that system.

tl;dr

Players can choose what map level (C - S3) to play against, even if the party already exists, as each player can have their own individual play level (C - S3).

Obviously (or not) some kind of 'average' general map (e.g. Map level A), would need to be used for all players. Just the actual damage/HP/exp-payouts/rewards would be scaled up or down, as necessary.

 

New Lobby and/or reuse/repurposing of existing lobby:

Call it the "I want to Party meet and greet area", or whatever (I don't care about the exact name, I'm just trying to illustrate the concept). So, if you want to party, you go to that area, and can meet other similar minded players, team up, and head out somewhere to party together.

Edited by Adooma
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For the second idea, do you have any exemple of games that using it ? The idea could be good, but it seems EXTREMLY tricky to do, technicaly speaking. And not sure it will works that well.

For the last point well, basically, discord. Or maybe a global chat for those who dont use discord would help.

Yeah for the first point it was something in debate iirc, dont remember what was the global opinion about it (if this happen one day, it will also be the "I want to Party meet and greet area" lobby of your second point)

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43 minutes ago, Aelphasy said:

For the second idea, do you have any exemple of games that using it ? The idea could be good, but it seems EXTREMLY tricky to do, technicaly speaking. And not sure it will works that well.

For the last point well, basically, discord. Or maybe a global chat for those who dont use discord would help.

Yeah for the first point it was something in debate iirc, dont remember what was the global opinion about it (if this happen one day, it will also be the "I want to Party meet and greet area" lobby of your second point)

If we pretend that we had the full source code (and any other files needed) for both the client and the (original Sega) server (I know we haven't got this, but it lets me explain it further).

Then, parts of such a mechanism would already exist (I believe).

Because you can have one or more players (on old/original Sega servers), where the players can be any (1 to 200) level, and it can be mission level C through to S3. You can then add (just before starting the mission), various NCP characters and your PM (as long as you are party/team leader).

The system then AUTOMATICALLY handles the NCPs, so that they can appropriately play in those low, medium or very high level missions. By appropriately/automatically scaling up/down as necessary, their player level, equipment, capabilities and maybe other parameters.

 

But sadly, we can't refer to that source code. BUT I remember reading articles/reports (publicly available), about how the system handles NCP characters, when encountering various mission difficulty levels.

 

I think there are a number of games which do this kind of (automatic) scaling. I've forgotten the name (it will probably come to me later), it was a partly similar game to PSU (RPG), no monthly fees, you basically paid once and for all for the game, and could then online party in it, for free (no monthly subscriptions).

It basically took the easy option (almost cheating), whereby all players in mixed player level games, would be set to player level 20. Regardless of the players actual player level. (On reflection, PSU use to do this, for GAS or related mission, where everyone was level20, but I was referring to a different game, here).

 

I suspect the tricky bit, is making sure all players, get the same/identical basic map (perhaps Map Level A), as changing monsters between players would badly desyncronise the client/server and cause terrible problems.

You then remember in the server what mission level (C .. S3) each player chose, and scale up or down, Map level A, as necessary.

So a low level player, playing a (simulated) C difficulty level mission, would see their attacks increased (boosted), up to a level, suited for attacking in a level A mission.

The same low level player, would take pro-rata less damage from attacks, as they are playing a C level mission, and taking A level hits. E.g. reduce damage amount by 70% (or whatever it needs to be).

Let's say the monster expires and would have paid 400 meseta as it's a level A mission. It gets reduced to (say) 75 meseta, as they are only playing a C ranked mission difficulty.

Similarly, a very high level player who chose level S3, will get the damage, considerably increased (scaled up from a mission level A monster, up to an S3 damage level).

Additionally, any damage the very high level player tries to deal to the monster (on actual level A difficulty), will be massively scaled down, so their 4,000 damage, will be reduced down to (say) 500.

Also, the high level player, will get a much bigger meseta payout, if the monster converts to a meseta drop, so the 400 meseta, might be scaled up to perhaps 1,500 meseta.

When the mission is finished (let's say it is s-ranked), the meseta, MP, PA rewards, can be scaled up/down or removed (e.g. PA fragments for low level missions).

 

I suspect only a very small number of missions (perhaps only one or two), would be rewritten/modified or created for this mechanism. It can then be specially crafted to do the various things, I just details.

 

Similarly, item drops, would be as per the players chosen mission difficulty level, so a lvl10 player, playing a (simulated) c difficulty mission, might get a 1** Hand gun, whereas the lvl100 player, playing a (simulated) S2 level mission, might  get (from the same box/drop), a 12** rare quality/valuable weapon(s).

 

I envisage the current mechanism whereby each individual player, gets their own drops when partying, maybe could be extended, to cover this automatic level compensation.

 

EDIT:

I think the system may have previously done something, on the lines of how I described, at least to some extent. In these 'special' missions, part of GAS or similar expansion. Whereby every one was level20 in the mission, regardless of how high they really were. It was too long ago, for me to remember it more accurately.

Edited by Adooma
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1 hour ago, Aelphasy said:

For the last point well, basically, discord. Or maybe a global chat for those who dont use discord would help.

I don't think I like Discord, and suspect the feelings are MUTUAL.

When I recently tried the link on these forums/wiki or similar, it suggested that I was a spammer, and demanded that I immediately supply it with my cell/mobile telephone number. That episode, has further cemented me NOT wanting to touch Discord with a very long barge pole.

 

That's an interesting idea. On optional/enable for global chat, for making parties, help with the game, advice etc.

But please, DO NOT force this on all users, with no choice. I dislike games with global chats, and we're trying to play, then these messages keep on scrolling across the left (or) right of the screen. As long as it has an enable/disable feature, I suppose that should be ok.

Maybe the current 2 page player status display, could have a third page/screen with global messages in it, and/or the F12 text talk feature, might be able to be changed so that it is, local(party chat), lobby chat or global server chat. Might not be possible because of the fixed client and/or not knowing enough about the clients functionality.

Edited by Adooma
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I CAN log in to it, but then I get the following message, and apparently NO way of getting out of/around it, without giving them something which I WON'T do. I choose who to give my (personal) information to, not some (random) website.

Who knows what they do with the number, who they give it to, who they sell it to, if they get hacked, do the hackers get the phone numbers, etc etc.

Anyway, I prefer FULL-SCREENED PSU, which seems to mean, if I move to another program while PSU is running, the client immediately closes down. Which also makes it harder to use discord.

Also (as said in many of my other posts), I do not like Discord, sorry.

nodiscordforyou.thumb.png.a300ff036a459edd2494a7a1fcb8639a.png

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10 hours ago, Adooma said:

Global All Mission Counter:

This wouldn't be possible unfortunately as it'd be a game limitation. Mission files have a designated Start end End location that it expects and the client gets unhappy if it isn't the right one. That reason is the main cause of the "mission doesn't end" bugs. It would also make it impossible to join the mission from the counter if you are not the leader.

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16 minutes ago, Jakoo56 said:

This wouldn't be possible unfortunately as it'd be a game limitation. Mission files have a designated Start end End location that it expects and the client gets unhappy if it isn't the right one. That reason is the main cause of the "mission doesn't end" bugs. It would also make it impossible to join the mission from the counter if you are not the leader.

On the one hand, I'm sure you are right.

 

But on the other hand, there may be ways of achieving it, from the knowledge and features, we (or I should say you lot), already understand and have control of.

 

I suspect a list of all currently available (running/active) missions, is known to the existing server software (written for Clementine). So, if that can be displayed somewhere and an item chosen from that list.

Maybe the "invite player" feature, where a player (leader) can invite another player, on their player card list, to join their mission. Can be used (hijacked/repurposed).

So the player chooses a mission from one of the available ones (possibly using an add-on to the existing client), on the lines of "Gnome Glasses - 1.14", if there is no obvious/available in-game alternative.

Then, the Clementine Server could create an "invite-to-party" signal/object/communication, which is already possible, if you have a players card, are mission leader, they are online and not in another party, possibly other requirements.

This would then allow a player to use the transport system (Lady's) to get to the correct mission counter (it MIGHT be possible to automate that, via the server software). They are already part of the party (as they accepted the invite), so just need to step into the counter.

 

tl;dr

What I'm trying to say is, that to directly/properly write/modify the client/server to do what I originally suggested is (as you said in the post), NOT possible, at the moment.

But it might be possible to work around those limits, by using features that already exist, and using them to create similar functionality.

 

Also, since the keyboard short cut system, allows player actions to be put into single "macros" or whatever you are calling them. It might be possible to create a new all active missions counter, which apparently allows selection of any of the available missions.

 

Summary:

"Gnome Glasses - 1.14" like add-on or conversion of existing game features, to see a list of all currently running, party missions (ideally with unavailable ones, such as password locked, too high a player level, full party) removed.

Then use an alternative way of getting to missions (which doesn't cause issues and is currently understood), by generating a server created party invite (a bit like we get in-game emails, when 5 missions are completed and/or 150 boxes opened and/or the correct monster of the day is expired, the appropriate number of times, etc).

Then possibly create a new keyboard macro thing, which is issued by the server (or pressed as a single key by the player), which accepts the invite, accepts the travel lady jump to the right counter, then runs the player into the counter.

I'm sure what I just said, wouldn't work as stated. But, there should be some way to do it.

 

I.e. Like the way the new daily mission rewards, gives 20,000 meseta, using existing player status panels and existing ingame email messages, etc.

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