Grind Breaking is a pointless mechanic

[McDeezy]

The fact that grinding can fail does not make for exciting or interesting game play. It is annoying and completely useless. All it does is punish the player for using a feature in the game. Sega realized this and removed it completely in future installments of the Phantasy Star Universe franchise. It is so stupidly pointless that even this server's wiki calls the randomness of it annoying.  All grind breaking does is make players not want to play. Especially after they hunted or could finally afford the item they wanted just for it to break. To the mods of Clementine, do us all a favor and get rid of that system. Just make grinding simple and easy. In Phantasy Star Portable 2, grinding was done by literally just going to the shop and paying meseta to grind a weapon 1-10 with no chance of breaking. That said, each grind got more and more expensive and each grind was really expensive on S ranks. Another cool feature was that you could grind past 10 with extend codes and bring said weapon up a rank. For example, you could grind an A rank saber to 10, use an extend code and it would become an S rank with 0 grind. After that, you could grind it to 10 once more. Extend codes were quite rare but it made them worth hunting. Not to mention, it was fun taking a weapon you loved all the way to its maximum potential. I know that Clementine is supposed to replicate Phantasy Star Universe. However, the original PSU is gone and there is so much more improvement that can be done. Clementine could very well be an even better experience than what Sega originally offered and this is just a single example. 

[Ronald Mcdonald]

Sorry to hear your weapon broke. If I were you I would have waited for the next grind boost to grind such a special weapon.

Anyways, I have a maxed character right now. I could literally play the event for 4 hours and have enough money to buy almost any unbroken weapon in the game. I am currently making 5+ mil a day very easily nowadays. I do not see the point in implementing a new grinding system when meseta is flowing like a waterfall right now.

Why the big rush to get to the end of the tunnel? The journey to the end of the game has just began and you are talking about not wanting to play over a failed grind?

Also, do not fall into peer pressure when grinding. For some reason mods are allowing grinding peer pressure but silence people who they don't agree with on certain topics. 

Imagine all endgame weapons were easily grinded like how you are proposing. Why not just make items drop 10/10?

Can I ask what it was that you were even grinding?

[McDeezy]

My weapon didn't break. I don't do grinding because of the randomness of it. It not a well thought out system and there are more reasons to change it than to leave it the way it is. Not to mention, the later grinding systems to be included in Phantasy Star Portable 2 and Portable 2 Infinity allow for players to keep the weapons they love even if they are  a lower rank. But the caveat of that is paying the meseta and hunting for the codes to get it to be the same level as the s ranks. Does this mean someone could make a C rank sword into an S rank? Yup, but it takes a good amount of effort! A single extend code brings a weapon up a single rank. So a C rank weapon would require 3 extend codes. In Phantasy Star Portable 2 and its sequel Infinity, extend codes are not common whatsoever. So in regards to end game content, the meseta expenditure as well as the procurement of extend codes coincided very well with if a player were to just use weapons already of higher class. One of the main draws to Phantasy Star is playing with character looks. Weapons and gear are a part of that. It isn't always motivating to feel forced into new gear just because of stats. It is equally if not more motivating to be able to have the opportunity to level up the stuff you like to the max. Just as you would your character and it would be silly if every time you leveled there was a chance of your character breaking. That doesn't mean people are going to stop hunting S rank weapons and uber rares at all. I saw that first hand when I used to play Portable 2 online as well as Infinity on the Japanese Servers. 

[SPiEkY]

I feel like the fact that grinding can result in a break to be incredibly exciting, and it very much constitutes "interesting" gameplay, to me. When I break a weapon, I don't want to quit playing, I want to get back out there and find another one so I can try again. I would be very disappointed if the grinding system were to change.

[Hatsodoom]

My suggestion, do what PSO2 does with Unit Grinding. Give it a chance to fail at later grinds and have failure lower the current grind level, but don't have it reduce the max grind of the item. This way there's still a penalty for failing, but nothing that will effectively nerf the max power of your weapon.

[Hatsodoom]

Alternatively, if the devs could make this a thing, make a grinder that resets the current grind to 0, but restores the max grind to 10. Something like a "Reset Grinder".

Edited February 25, 2021 by Hatsodoom

[Ronald Mcdonald]

The real solution to everything is grind repairs. Make them super super super rare during an event only. Boom problem solved. We are just not ready for them yet imo.

16 hours ago, McDeezy said:

My weapon didn't break. 

There is no need to be upset about weapon grinds breaking when you have never even broken a weapon. All weapons are fairly easy to acquire right now.

I am sorry you have to play the game in order to beat it.

The current system is already like PSO2, except you can't just spam a button until it grinds all the way. We have a similar system where every once in a while we might get a grind boost week. During the last test server everyone basically agreed in the discord that this is the way it should be done. People have had multiple chances with different test servers to ask for something this big and game changing to get implemented. 

I am with @SPiEkY that the current grind system is very exciting. Someone had a 9/10 rare weapon the other night and people flocked to his room in masses to tell him to grind it. That is a very fun community event to be apart of and it literally brang a smile to my face.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Ronald Mcdonald

[McDeezy]

Grind failing is one thing, grind breaking is another.  Spikey and Ronald. While you two might get excitement from the potential of weapon breaking and like the idea of repeat hunting something you already earned, not everyone feels that way. (let me add I doubt you actually enjoy that process especially if it happens more than once.) Every other player I talk to and the Clementine wiki itself calls the randomness of the system an annoyance. It promotes players not take part in a feature. As for these solutions, I think they are great. A broken weapon repair kit or if a grind fails it doesn't break the weapon and alternatively decreases the grind rather than completely ruining grind potential are much more innovative than how it currently is set up. 

[Aelphasy]

You are not the first to complain about this system Deezy. On the previous forum there was a lot of post on this subject. I believe there are others here as well. So devs are aware I think, all we have is to wait now.

[kirbysuperstar]

3 hours ago, Ronald Mcdonald said:

There is no need to be upset about weapon grinds breaking when you have never even broken a weapon. All weapons are fairly easy to acquire right now.

I am sorry you have to play the game in order to beat it.

No offense my man, but this attitude is garbage, much like the grind system.

There is absolutely nothing 'exciting' or 'thrilling' or even fulfilling about the grind system as is.

[Mr. J]

On 2/25/2021 at 1:13 AM, Ronald Mcdonald said:

 Imagine all endgame weapons were easily grinded like how you are proposing. Why not just make items drop 10/10?

Lol this coming from the guy trying to hijack the S+10 market. 

[Ronald Mcdonald]

Please enlighten me on what will be left to in this game once we have the best items maxed out. I really need to know now if there is another "endgame" other than having the best gear/weapons/grind. Once this is all accomplished then it will be time to put PSU up on the shelf and play a different game. If you guys cant afford to play the game for 10 hours after maxing out your character to get an item and grind it then that is at your expense. Everything is so easy to get right now and it is still not easy enough for you guys? 

Go ahead and say whatever you want on me and others who have a similar opinion. I want want Phantasy Star Universe: Clementine to last forever. I don't want to beat it in a week. I don't even want to play this current event because of how much of a handout meseta is right now. 

Look at almost every other game ever. Most games you can beat in a week and move on to the next. PSU doesn't deserve that treatment. Lets keep it different and make it long lasting.

[Hatsodoom]

17 hours ago, Ronald Mcdonald said:

Please enlighten me on what will be left to in this game once we have the best items maxed out. I really need to know now if there is another "endgame" other than having the best gear/weapons/grind. Once this is all accomplished then it will be time to put PSU up on the shelf and play a different game. If you guys cant afford to play the game for 10 hours after maxing out your character to get an item and grind it then that is at your expense. Everything is so easy to get right now and it is still not easy enough for you guys? 

Go ahead and say whatever you want on me and others who have a similar opinion. I want want Phantasy Star Universe: Clementine to last forever. I don't want to beat it in a week. I don't even want to play this current event because of how much of a handout meseta is right now. 

Look at almost every other game ever. Most games you can beat in a week and move on to the next. PSU doesn't deserve that treatment. Lets keep it different and make it long lasting.

Wow... someone said what I was thinking but, a bit more brutally. I mean I still think the grind system should be tweaked slightly, but yah once you get max level and all your best stuff, that's it. Game over. There is no max level content or raids like WoW, ESO, etc. Also it kinda bugs me how people say the weapon "breaks". It doesn't that's what they USED to do, as in they used to just get straight up deleted.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Hatsodoom

[McDeezy]

17 hours ago, Ronald Mcdonald said:

Please enlighten me on what will be left to in this game once we have the best items maxed out. I really need to know now if there is another "endgame" other than having the best gear/weapons/grind. Once this is all accomplished then it will be time to put PSU up on the shelf and play a different game. If you guys cant afford to play the game for 10 hours after maxing out your character to get an item and grind it then that is at your expense. Everything is so easy to get right now and it is still not easy enough for you guys? 

Go ahead and say whatever you want on me and others who have a similar opinion. I want want Phantasy Star Universe: Clementine to last forever. I don't want to beat it in a week. I don't even want to play this current event because of how much of a handout meseta is right now. 

Look at almost every other game ever. Most games you can beat in a week and move on to the next. PSU doesn't deserve that treatment. Lets keep it different and make it long lasting.

It's not going to break the game. If anything a better grind system brings more enjoyment and gameplay potential for the game. If the game has to rely on cheesy mechanics to last, then it isn't a good game. Sega realized this and completely reworked the system in later installments. Ever since your first reply you have been snarky and salty. Disrespect isn't appreciated on what is otherwise a civilized discussion. Thank you. 

[Hatsodoom]

I want the game to last too, but the grinding system could use some tweaks.

[Killroy]

The grinding system is one of the biggest flaw PSU ever have imo. There is other ways to make it 10/.10 feel special without feel to break a weapon to lose the full potential.  RNG is a bitch but theres nothing you can do it about it and hope you get really lucky. Hows it feel hunting a very tough drop from S4 for example and manage to find a Cursed Dark Flow with 45%+ elements and then later started to break? I will literally feel very discouraged and probably take a long break from PSU to calm my head after that bullshit RNG. PSO2 made the grinding system soo much better and helping outdated weapons to be still usable. Theres alot of people that don't like this system at all. Breaking a Edel weapon is a big yikes

[Ronald Mcdonald]

On 2/26/2021 at 4:26 PM, McDeezy said:

 snarky and salty. Disrespect isn't appreciated on what is otherwise a civilized discussion. Thank you. 

Please point out where I am being disrespectful. I am being civilized with my responses McDeezy. I have not called you any names, so technically you are the one being snarky and salty. 

I should have my entitlement to an opinion, just as you do. Neither one of us is higher than the other. Thank you.

[Ronald Mcdonald]

23 hours ago, Killroy said:

 Cursed Dark Flow with 45%+ elements 

Mr. Killroy. Are you implying that endgame weapons be made easy to max out? If anything this kind of weapon should be even harder to grind at that stage in the game.

[McDeezy]

4 hours ago, Ronald Mcdonald said:

Please point out where I am being disrespectful. I am being civilized with my responses McDeezy. I have not called you any names, so technically you are the one being snarky and salty. 

I should have my entitlement to an opinion, just as you do. Neither one of us is higher than the other. Thank you.

It is not my job to explain how you've been snarky throughout this entire thread when it is very apparent to anyone who will read through this. I am sorry that your attachment to an outdated gatcha like mechanic for an essential function of the game makes you feel so strongly. However, you are clearly in the minority here when it comes to how grinding works currently and it would be for the benefit of basically every other player for it to be reworked. As far as responses, I'm not going to be answering on this thread anymore. I said all I originally intended to say in the first post. 

[Ronald Mcdonald]

11 hours ago, McDeezy said:

you are clearly in the minority here when it comes to how grinding works currently 

Are you sure you are not in the minority on your idea? Having less than a handful of responses should not constitute someone as being apart of any minority group. There are 5000+ accounts created. Look at the other weapon grinding change proposal poll. The community is split in half on this even being an issue. Not to mention I have around 30 friends who think the current system is perfect and that there does not need to be 4 different forum posts on what should or shouldn't be done. 

Go ahead and don't reply on your own discussion post. If you do not want to have a discussion, then don't post in the discussion part of the forums? 

[BlogAboutIt]

12 hours ago, McDeezy said:

It is not my job to explain how you've been snarky throughout this entire thread when it is very apparent to anyone who will read through this. I am sorry that your attachment to an outdated gatcha like mechanic for an essential function of the game makes you feel so strongly. However, you are clearly in the minority here when it comes to how grinding works currently and it would be for the benefit of basically every other player for it to be reworked. As far as responses, I'm not going to be answering on this thread anymore. I said all I originally intended to say in the first post. 

I wouldn't say he is the minority here. The grinding system is fine for the most part because it incentivizes "more to do" in the late game like a few have already stated. You don't NEED a 10/10 to play the game. You WANT it because it makes your character better and worth more. There's no point in adjusting the grind system to allow for redemption's. If you fail, that's it, go find another one end of story. As another person said, it could be how it use to when the weapon broke it was deleted so at least you still keep it.

[Mr. J]

Just give us repairs already. Would make a great meseta sink, too. Some items are just way too rare or tedious to get for anyone to 'just farm another.'

Let's not even get into the one-time-only deals like Edel weapons.

 

Quote

 I want want Phantasy Star Universe: Clementine to last forever. I don't want to beat it in a week.

I understand that feeling, but in the long run I feel like the mechanic is going to drive people away more often than it will drive them to find replacement gear, and nothing kills an online game more thoroughly than a shrinking playerbase.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Mr. J

[Reclaimer]

Grind breaking is part of the original game. I don't understand why that would ever change. It makes the risk/reward ratio very exciting. The system could use a bit of tweaking though.

[Keystone]

On 2/24/2021 at 10:22 PM, McDeezy said:

The fact that grinding can fail does not make for exciting or interesting game play. It is annoying and completely useless. All it does is punish the player for using a feature in the game.

I think all it really controls is how early you want the next wipe to come.

Grind failing just extends the amount of time 'til we all have 10/10's and there's nothing left/better to acquire in the game.

[Sedonx]

Maybe a smidge unrelated but would love to see Grinder Base S become more available, maybe even in shop. 

So many rubbish S ranks drop that are outstripped by easier/cheaper to grind A ranks, if S grinders were more available we could throw them on the Hyper Vipers and Rabbit Wanda guilt free!

 

Personally I love grind breaking, maybe not when it fails but it was one of my favourite thrills from playing this years ago, literally closing my eyes when it's about done, exiting the menu then checking in there if it succeeded Big part of what pushed me to look for private servers of PSU was that risk v reward.