Weapon Grinding Change Proposal

[white mist]

Hello Clementine community, I am here to start the discussion of weapon grinding and how it can be improved and/or changed as a whole for a more enjoyable experience. I wrote out my own view on how things can be redone which can be found at the google doc link Here (Its a bit of a long read). I have shown this to several members of the staff as well as all the other helpers / balance team members and they mostly liked it but if any major change is to happen, the rest of the player base would need to look it over and give an honest review of it. 

After you have read it and are willing to give a critique or response in general, I humbly ask that whether you like it or dislike it, that you add as much details as to why that is and how it can be more improved as well as your own ideas that you may have as I would love to read them! Somethings to note is that none of the rates on there have been tested, nobody at this time would have any idea how they would feel and would need to be ran by several people in a test server to get a general idea but I'd also like to add a few extra questions that could help that process:
1) With this system you would be using a decent amount more grinders than you normally would. How many grinders do you think it would be reasonable for to achieve a 10/10? What is too much or too little based on your experience in obtaining grinders.
2) This system is mainly to promote people to add a few upgrades on weapons without risking its entire value. How far on grinds with the current grinding system do you usually go to before you consider too much of a risk / loss?
3) What are your overall opinions with the current grinding system? What do you think about upgraded weapons in general?

I understand that this isn't anything how "Official" did things but a lot of Clementine isn't how official did things but it seems the majority of people have enjoyed all of those changes so far. Nothing feels worse in PSU than spending a very large amount of time trying to get the weapon you want (and if its a melee weapons, you need that high % too) and when you go to grind it, it comes out 4/4 and your previous gear is still better and you feel as if you wasted all that time trying to progress but you accomplished nothing. I hope that at the very least this has inspired some of you to think about other new ways to approach PSU systems that aren't very fun, I'm looking forward to all of your responses on this matter! Thanks for reading / participating.
 

[Exmover]

This is a good proposal. However, I'd like to focus that if all s rank has same amount of rates, that would be a grinding balance issue since grinding late endgame weapons would have same chance with another s rank ones. So, to add with my version, s rank weapons with more stars should get a decrease in %.

S+1 on 10* stars should be started from 51% and 9-10 with S+10 would have 6%.

Now to add my version here.

S+1 on 11* weapon would be 50% like what nick has proposed.

12* would start from 49% and 9-10 with 4% chance.

With this setup, 15* weapons when grinding 9 to 10 would have 1% chance when using S+10

Edited January 20, 2021 by Exmover

[KanameChidori]

This proposal is basically what it was at some point. Lower rates but no breaking. I don't know how I feel about being forced to use higher grinders to have a chance at all. That would push the price of higher grinders up even more I'd think. Since your ability of using them becomes impossible. Maybe not make them impossible but have a much lower diminishing return. 

[Exmover]

To add more, C to A rank could get the treatment I have added, but it's better to put it not at 1% difference though.

[Cake]

I like this proposal. 

I would also like to add an idea about a shop that had a semi expensive special board for every wep in the game and the price of the boards is based off the star rarity of the wep or something.. its always 100% BUT you need to use that weapon as the fodder.

an example is like a 4/4 50% light agito repca. i buy that "special board" for like 4mill and it requires me to use that repca in the synthesis AND it will keep the % of the repca i put in.... and now i have a repaired 0/10 50% light repca and solves the issue of not being able to repair a fully grinded wep

[Flibbity]

I like it overall, I don't have the time to grind I used to, and the current grind system is pretty heavily punishing. I know this is a high grind game and that's fine. I feel like this system would curb the punishment a lot, which is good. It may also lock some players out of 10/10 S weapons as I feel like +10's will become the new hot item. But I would personally be fine with that. If I got my hands on a rare, or even just a rare board, and grind the mats, then craft with a chance of failure point there, I would rather know that maybe I can get 6/10 eventually and work towards it than risk going 5/5 or worse. I don't think your system would nullify the grind either for those who really enjoy that. I'm sure there are others with more nuanced feedback, and I definitely can't speak to the specific numbers as I think they would need more feedback/testing.

[ZephyrValgale]

The proposal does look good, though I'm with Kaname on the subject of only having a chance of success with higher grinders at higher grinds.

[Lil Ms Thunda Thighs]

I like the proposal. I think it's better to be able to grind more weapons.

I enjoyed the official psu grinding system in the fact that 10/10 really meant something special. but same time its so punishing for really rare things to break too. If they added a repair function like jp psu had that would also be acceptable. as long as it wasn't ridiculous in cost or mats etc. 

The only thing I didn't like is the mention of nerfing some weapons, like agito repca for example. I just dislike the idea of making stuff weaker than it was on official, and agito repca as a good example remained very special and strong. It was one of the most iconic weapons of psu official and just bugs me to think it would be nerfed lol.

I do feel like making it possible for any weapon to hit 10 without breaking will have a very strange effect on the economy for high element melee weapons tho. being a private server and smaller community than official had I think reflecting on some of pso2's old and new grind systems is something to think about as its a much easier and enjoyable grinding system. There any weapon can hit max element and max grind. It's nice, but it also makes every weapon the same and takes away a lot of special appeal of seeing like 45% 10/10 etc being rare. there is pro's and cons to consider but I like the idea of the changes.

[Flawless]

I could not be more against this. I understand that JP had it's hand in P2W stuff for grinding (http://www.psupedia.info/The_Upgrade_Device.html). I'd rather never see the aforementioned stuff in any capacity than to have this version of grinding and just send my stuff to the void with a prayer. This game is already significantly easier than it's predecessor (PSO) and easier than many other MMOs such as Runescape. Leveling your character is easy, leveling your type is easy, even leveling your attacks is easy now. One of the last few things in this game that's "challenging" is grinding / hunting items. It's clear SEGA designed this system with the idea of permanently ruining weapons and it should stay this way. At this rate we may as well turn this into a sandbox server if we implement this system. 10/10 weapons are supposed to be hard. They surely shouldn't be ensured unless using the system SEGA designed which is the Guardians Cash (http://www.psupedia.info/GUARDIANS_Cash.html) system (but obviously replacing the $ with in game Meseta). This system allowed you to upgrade your weapon with no chance of failure to 8/10 for ~7 USD and then could repair an unlimited amount of times for the 9 and 10 grinds for another ~9 USD.  For just a single weapon we're looking at $15 USD if you only have to repair at 9 and 10 once each (yeah right). If you're a fighter that's 6 times per rainbow set of a given weapon for $75. This a significantly larger investment than the system proposed which completely ruins the value of 10/10 gear (and honestly so does this stupid GC shit but at least it had a much heavier toll). Nothing about grinding needs to change from how it was on 360 official and especially not in the way mentioned in your google document. If grinding ABSOLUTELY MUST change (it doesn't) then it should be using the methods provided by SEGA. Not some bunk made up method. 

"I truly believe everyone has a right to upgrade weapons and have 10/10s of what they want" go play sandbox when it comes out then. That's a poor way to look at any grinding based game. Why not extend that outlook beyond? Does everyone deserve to have the base item to begin with as well? Does everyone deserve the Meseta to grind weapons? Does everyone deserve a capped character with capped types and capped attacks? The answer to all these questions is obviously no unless we've shifted to a sandbox server.

As far as "testing" any kinds of rates with this system... the only acceptable rates in my eyes would be ones that are currently worse than your quoted 5% and it'd have to be significantly worse since this system is extraordinarily easy. 

You call grinding a problem, but it's really not. That's the way SEGA intended the game to be. If you don't like it play an easier game. So much has already changed. Grinding may not be remade with 100% accuracy as far as percent chances go but the overall system is in as it was designed by SEGA. It should stay that way.

I could type more about my absolute dismay for this system, but anyone reading this gets the point.

[Cake]

44 minutes ago, Flawless said:

I could not be more against this. I understand that JP had it's hand in P2W stuff for grinding (http://www.psupedia.info/The_Upgrade_Device.html). I'd rather never see the aforementioned stuff in any capacity than to have this version of grinding and just send my stuff to the void with a prayer. This game is already significantly easier than it's predecessor (PSO) and easier than many other MMOs such as Runescape. Leveling your character is easy, leveling your type is easy, even leveling your attacks is easy now. One of the last few things in this game that's "challenging" is grinding / hunting items. It's clear SEGA designed this system with the idea of permanently ruining weapons and it should stay this way. At this rate we may as well turn this into a sandbox server if we implement this system. 10/10 weapons are supposed to be hard. They surely shouldn't be ensured unless using the system SEGA designed which is the Guardians Cash (http://www.psupedia.info/GUARDIANS_Cash.html) system (but obviously replacing the $ with in game Meseta). This system allowed you to upgrade your weapon with no chance of failure to 8/10 for ~7 USD and then could repair an unlimited amount of times for the 9 and 10 grinds for another ~9 USD.  For just a single weapon we're looking at $15 USD if you only have to repair at 9 and 10 once each (yeah right). If you're a fighter that's 6 times per rainbow set of a given weapon for $75. This a significantly larger investment than the system proposed which completely ruins the value of 10/10 gear (and honestly so does this stupid GC shit but at least it had a much heavier toll). Nothing about grinding needs to change from how it was on 360 official and especially not in the way mentioned in your google document. If grinding ABSOLUTELY MUST change (it doesn't) then it should be using the methods provided by SEGA. Not some bunk made up method. 

"I truly believe everyone has a right to upgrade weapons and have 10/10s of what they want" go play sandbox when it comes out then. That's a poor way to look at any grinding based game. Why not extend that outlook beyond? Does everyone deserve to have the base item to begin with as well? Does everyone deserve the Meseta to grind weapons? Does everyone deserve a capped character with capped types and capped attacks? The answer to all these questions is obviously no unless we've shifted to a sandbox server.

As far as "testing" any kinds of rates with this system... the only acceptable rates in my eyes would be ones that are currently worse than your quoted 5% and it'd have to be significantly worse since this system is extraordinarily easy. 

You call grinding a problem, but it's really not. That's the way SEGA intended the game to be. If you don't like it play an easier game. So much has already changed. Grinding may not be remade with 100% accuracy as far as percent chances go but the overall system is in as it was designed by SEGA. It should stay that way.

I could type more about my absolute dismay for this system, but anyone reading this gets the point.

while i do understand keeping it original... sega changed grinding from pre AOTI because of how bad it felt losing you wep outright and also adding in the pay to repair in the first place. to make money obv and to make it feel less bad if you had the $. in pso2 sega made each grind WAY lower chance to pass and at higher grinds could drop a few grinds but every wep can always go max grind, it just costed more meseta overall to do so. they did that change to revamp how it worked and to make it feel less bad.
Also remember this is a SMALL private server that has a smaller market. Weps dont stay best in slot for long... with the short amount of time to find weps between updates, and the small amount of ppl to actually find weps.. were here to play the game again and QoL changes (nano-photons) to make higher elements faster. less risk, is the same thing. a QoL change to make striking weps easier to make cuz of low pop, cost of mats, cost of grinding, and small amount of crafted striking weps between best in slot changes.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Cake

[bando_boyッ]

 

• "When a grind fails, it will only fail and nothing more, for example a 5/10 failing going to 6/10 would remain at 5/10 but the idea is to have the success rates quite low to turn it into more of a resource spam system..."
  
  seeing as how grinding is already a "resource spam system" with not only MESETA but a person's TIME as well, (buying pre-made grinders, buying/farming boards/bases to make grinders, *which is a gamble in itself already*, ruining a new weapon drop and having to buy/farm the item again). *[HIGH % ELE, LOW % DROP BABY ]* actually having POSITIVE, or at least NEUTRAL results (i.e making grinders will be more worthwhile since other grinder values [+2, +3] will have a reason to even exist finally) (i.e failing going to 6/10 would remain 5/10) is a great move forward in making grinding not only more accessible to all players, but also less of a COMPLETE WASTE and a less dreadful experience all around. we're either not touching grinding, or already wasting lots of resources just to 2/2 a weapon and have it be worse than an older drop, as you stated in the proposal. we should at least be able to sink these resources knowing it's not completely all for nothing, and there's actually a chance to BENEFIT from these risks we take, for the weapons we worked so hard to get without throwing away all that TIME you spent to get it.
  
  lots more to go into detail about but just an initial thought on the proposal, looks and sounds great!
  
  having a 10/10 is not a trophy, and it's not just a min-max thing. if grinding isn't changed then most weapons later in the game will have to go undergo stat changes cos lots of weapons are SHIT compared to previous/lower rarity weapons with out being fully grinded. naturally making said weapons USELESS! not to mention a 10/10 isn't as valuable as it was on official since we're missing FCP from GAS anyway. stop putting 10/10s on a pedestal like they are the end all be all for a character, most 10/10 weapons are not that valuable LOL.
  
  grinding shouldn't be a 100% chance to 10/10, but what we have now is an abomination of a RNG shit show that benefits no one, nor is it a fun system to strive towards at the moment. We already have low drop rates and a low population (+shitty economy), so making grinding a more positive experience doesn't deter from the games grindy nature. the whole "official was or wasn't like this" argument is good and all, and i mostly agree with, but most people (including myself) enjoy and praise the QoL changes that have already been made (which like 80% of Clementine differs from official anyway). Clem is a different entity than official (resources, development, population, economy etc.), and because of that the same things that worked fine there, won't work as well here. I'm not saying remove the official system as a whole, as it is, but renovate and make the system as great as it has the potential to be.
  
  while this may not be the 100% perfect fix to save grinding, this is a great proposal and a great start to a conversation that has long been in the works.
  
   

[Delta Violet+]

Colour usage 10/10 Bando.

[milranduil]

1 hour ago, Exmover said:

This is a good proposal. However, I'd like to focus that if all s rank has same amount of rates, that would be a grinding balance issue since grinding late endgame weapons would have same chance with another s rank ones. So, to add with my version, s rank weapons with more stars should get a decrease in %.

S+1 on 10* stars would should be started from 51% and 9-10 with S+10 would have 6%.

Now to add my version here.

S+1 on 11* weapon would be 50% like what nick has proposed.

12* would start from 49% and 9-10 with 4% chance.

With this setup, 15* weapons when grinding 9 to 10 would have 1% chance when using S+10

While I'd advise some care in balancing the last grind, I like the idea of 10* being easier than 15* to grind. At 1%, it's easy to spend upwards of 100 S+10 on the last grind and it not go (36% chance of failing the 1% 100 times in a row). I realize getting that rate right is part of this discussion, this is just to provide some statistical context.

[demonv1]

Yes please for the love of god I'm all for this. It encourages grinding and gives the lesser grinders a purpose.

 

2 hours ago, Flawless said:

This game is already significantly easier than it's predecessor

I'm sure the devs of this server can change that. I'm sure later down the line with the higher rank missions it will get very hard.

[packor]

10 hours ago, milranduil said:

While I'd advise some care in balancing the last grind, I like the idea of 10* being easier than 15* to grind. At 1%, it's easy to spend upwards of 100 S+10 on the last grind and it not go (36% chance of failing the 1% 100 times in a row). I realize getting that rate right is part of this discussion, this is just to provide some statistical context.

well, Idk if it's possible, but maybe we can add S + 11 - 15 grinders at even lower rates to synth.  That'd decrease the difficulty for 10* and increase the difficulty of 15* if you were to treat grinds based on star rarity instead of C, B, A, S.

[ShawnTehBot]

I agree that the current grinding system needs work.  A 1 in 20 chance to grind an S rank wep to 10/10 is just too low.   Especially when most of the S rank gear you are going to grind that far isn't going to be the easiest thing in the world to find(fighters have it even worse hunting for that high % on top of a rare drop).  

I also am a fan of weapons no longer breaking.  But, my idea was this:

1.  Increase the rates of the grinders.  Similar to how it was during the grind boost.  I know this would take time and testing.  I'm not sure if adding 10% across the board would completely solve this problem.  Maybe increase the rates of the lower grinds more significantly than the higher grinds(past 5 or 6).  Make it to where we CAN use the lower tier grinders for lower grinds. Then, maybe slightly increase the rates of the higher grinders so that you could use a +7 or +8 going from 5-6 or 6-7 with a decent shot.  This would also give some use to the grinders no one uses(anything that isn't an S+9 or 10). 

2. If a weapon does fail from 5/10 going to 6/10, bring it back to 0/10 instead of the proposed staying at 5/10.  This way you still have a reason to use your lower tier grinders and your weapon isn't getting destroyed in the process.

I know that there are people that want Clementine to stay close to official and they don't want to stray away, but this IS NOT official.  We are on a private server keeping a game alive that is over a decade old.  There's bound to be some changes.  Grinding as it stands right now is nothing more than a gamble.  Come late game if the grind systems stays as is, people will stop playing once they break that sought out weapon they spent days for hunting.  Trust me, I've been there on official.  With how this game is currently, people hardly spend their meseta already anyways, and if you break a weapon you almost expect that weapon to just sit in your shop for weeks HOPING someone MIGHT buy it.  If they don't see "x/10" you can forget about the value of that weapon.  

These are just some ideas I have and just some initial thoughts after reading the proposal.  Overall I think it's a great idea and I'd LOVE to see a change.  Again, 5% is just too low to grind something to 10.  Odds are you wont even find 20 of the same wep to even have that shot.  I'm glad this conversation is being had and hopefully sometime in the near future we can reach a solution and make grinding something that isn't so much of a pain that it is currently.  

Thank you Nick for taking the time to make this proposal.  Much appreciated.

[Dal]

Just give 10% boost to all grinds. And lose  three upgrades when broke 7/10 break goes to 4/10

Also fix striking weapon drop rates it's terrible.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Dal

[Ronald Mcdonald]

I like the idea of using more grinders to achieve the next grind. However, Weapons still need to break. I know nobody likes to hear the breaking noise but it is a part of grinding. I like this post simply because it aims to make grinding a little bit harder. I am 100% for making grinding harder. I feel like it is way too easy to make 10/10 weapons and way too easy to obtain cheap S+10. Make getting a 10/10 weapon an accomplishment with the suggestion below.

Maybe a upgrade you can purchase for a weapon such as a S+11 for 15mil. S+11 will only work on 10/10 weapons to provide a 10% boost. There was a GAS upgrade like this in the real game right? If GAS isn't fully implementable then S+11 should be the workaround.

I make almost 2 mil a day every day I get on for 5 hours. At this rate 10/10 weapons will be not as rare one day and so will be the abundance of meseta. Inflation is already taking into effect and there needs to be a better sink in place.  Also, put grind repairs in game for a ridiculous price to wash out more meseta. People are already getting close to owning a stack of meseta and it is still early in the game. 

I just feel like it is way too easy to grind right now. Do not make grinding easier because in the end when everybody has all their pallets maxed out and no more missions to run there will be nothing more to do. I plan on quitting the second I have a 10/10 pallet of all the stuff I want. Once you reach a point where you cannot minimax your characters more in the game, what will be left to do?  The game aims at getting your character the best stuff and maxing it out. The easier you make it to accomplish this the faster the game will end. 

 

My comment on the 24th of January best describes everything.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Ronald Mcdonald

[Omi]

This is an interesting proposal, and with some ideas (which you are currently getting) and proper implementation it could be a good new thing for Clem to add.

I still remember JP PSU and those NPCs treating my weapons similar to how a baby treats a diaper, and as a result me treating my bank account in a similar manner to unbreak them.  So from previous emotional, simulated, and monetary scarring anything that doesn't make the weapon "break" is very welcomed by me.  I know on Clem we don't have to worry about the monetary aspect (which is great), but this is also a way of getting around that without potentially getting overly complex with "unbreaking items" in the future.  (I don't play on the Test Server, and they might have already tried to implement them.)

I do have a few suggestions:  I am thinking have the weapon with three distinct "lock" points where grinds cannot go below that point.  They are of course 0/10, 10/10, but also 5/10.  Going along the OPs recommended proposal for grinding having a grind now "fail" say going from 8->9 would bring that weapon back to 8/10, but it has very low chance of success.  If instead the lock is at 5/10 the success chances could be a bit higher (along with boosting the % a bit more with better quality grinders instead of just a 1% increase per), but if you "fail" that 8->9 grind it goes back 5/10.  Nothing outrageously higher, and make it a bit more punishing after that 5/10 "lock" barrier as well but nothing as dismal as 5% success from 9->10.  I can see the middle fingers from the NPCs now...

I also do like the idea of utilizing the grinders in the way suggested.  A 0/10 weapon gets +1 - +10 to pick from, and a 6/10 can only pick between X+7 - X+10 to grind with.

As far as the rest of the balance is concerned with weapons like Agito Repca that get massive when you grind them, it really depends on if Clem will eventually be implementing the PA Boosted weapons (which are more powerful anyway) and the "Full Custom Power" Limit Break.  Ultimately it'll come down to a lot of testing to find proper balance, but in the case of PA Boosted weapons on the JP server... they seemed to be unbalanced on purpose due to their rarity.

[Ronald Mcdonald]

I want to put one last thing that I remember from last server. During the test server the general consensus around grinding was that there were to be weekly events that would change the gameplay. One week would be for EXP, another week would be for an event mission, and another week for a better grinding chance. I feel like this is the true solution to grinding in my personal opinion. 

Making grinding easier or unbreakable will just diminish the value of 0/10 weapons over time too. Forcing the player to grind for a better value of a weapon WHILE at the same time having an easier grinding system is just bad for the market.

 

P.S Another idea to put in the hat. Give grinding a 1% chance to break a weapon into nothingness or straight to 0/0

Edited January 21, 2021 by Ronald Mcdonald

[xuk_demon]

I would personally love to see a system like this in the game, for someone who struggles with drops grinding weapons is a major struggle as it's a meseta sink in every way possible.

If you're worried about the economy of the game don't be it's fucked already without this change. I can't buy any new drops out currently because I just don't get the drops or sell my rares to get meseta in the first place.

This change will finally actually let me grind my weapons that I spend hours apon end trying to farm or buy, so it's a up vote for me.

[Ronald Mcdonald]

Guys, I have had a change of heart. I've done the math and realized that if this goes through, I will be one of the richest guys on the server! I have been saving my S+10s for better S rank weapons to come out so I have saved some stacks of S+10. This update will make me super rich. I am sure a lot of other people are hoarding S+10 for this very reason too. In fact, after this post came out. S+10 mysteriously came up in price. 

However, I am scared. I know nobody wants me as the richest person on PSU Clementine. So will all S+10s be wiped from the game? I do not have anything in my inventory except weapons that add up to being worth like 100k all together. I will basically be wiped from my hundreds of hours of hard work. If I am being wiped then everyone else should be wiped as well. Especially since I earned my wealth through honest hard work. 

In fact, if we are gunna be testing new things out like this lets just make this a test server again? I thought this was supposed to be the final release but if you guys want to wipe again and test things out lets do it!! Lets test these things out and wipe again based off of a small poll that should decide the fate of the game. OR hey, lets just get Marm to test this out and code so we can give him more things to work on then he already is working on!

Thinking about making a poll about having all level caps released, with a 50% increased drop rate on all weapons too too. I mean who wouldn't want to upvote making the game easier. Maybe I can befriend the mods too so that my poll will be closer to being set in stone!

[Aelphasy]

We're not going to keep a system that is possibly the worst I've seen just because a few players have multiple S + 8/9/10... It's like saying in march/april (or whatever the month, not the point) "please dont release Caster Broom, because I have to sell my 8 psycho wand"

I will not repeat what has been said by the good posts above, because it is obvious that this system needs to be SIMPLIFIED and made less frustrating. At the very least, failing a 6/10 shouldn't reduce the 10. It's for what I advocate since past server and that's what the first idea of the google doc said which is good. A failed should result in -1/10 (fail at 6, it turn to 5/10) with the current rate succes it would remain a solid money sink. Weapon repair could also comeback (and so, fail = -1/-1) but then, I would like to c/c one of my idea :

Quote

if you repair, the weapon become more solid = less chance of failing next try. If you failed like 15-20 time = no more fail if you use a S+10 for 8 -> 9 and 9 -> 10. It remain rng + money sink BUT if you farm enough its 100% you have your 10/10.

Anyway, there is like 20 ways (theoretically... dunno if the client could allow everything) to make that painful mechanic a pleasant thing. 

Good luck !

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Aelphasy
"theoretically"

[Aprilstar]

This should not even exist at the game's final state. Look at how much people voted yes. There are 5000+ accounts created in this game. This small group of players should not hold the power of changing the game of 5000. Also, look closely at the people who are voting on this topic. I can identify 5 individuals that are always seen together in a party and separate discords. I can also identify another smaller group of individuals who share the same private discord too. Hey even look at the original poster, there is someone who liked the original post that shares the same pfp as the original poster for a long time. This is a rigged poll that will not decide the fate of 5000+ simply put. Most players do not even use the forums or even discord. 

These are not player decisions to be voted on. This should be something constructed and acted upon by a game dev only. How does the original poster even get to talk to game staff anyways? I always try to messgae them about my problems with no answer at all. This is fishey as heck.

If I actually saw some of the people talking about this playing in game I wouldn't be putting this out so harsh. Some of the people talking in this thread just sit in the lobby and hardly play for a small amount of time. You want the game to revolve around the small amount of time you have to play the game, /that is your fault, not the games fault you have no time. 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Aprilstar

[silver]

I am against this change
why:

• People will just sit there and spam grinders until their weapon is +10 with no risk, It becomes more akin to a slot machine.
• This will likely kill the game unless there is a plan to constantly keep adding new weapons.  This happened in PSO2 in ep4 when they made end games weps easy to get. There was just nothing to do.
• Not everyone deserves 10/10's life's unfair, but I think its ok to make the chances better.
• having x/10 weapons makes them all worth the same amount so new/casual players don't have a chance to get the best weapon even though it may be 5/5
• There is no full custom power so 10/10 vs other grinds isn't much difference except certain weps.
• I think you could remove breaks and do -grind(s), just make random chance of making grinders with -risk ex "S+10 +2 protect" that way it would remove 2 - grinds.
• The game was designed to have you break stuff/synth fail and go and farm more. 
• I'm not against changing grinding I just think think making it so everyone gets everything 10/10 will not end well.
• Every item's sellable price has been reduced by 10 yet shop price for grinders has remained the same as retail. Will this lower 10x if we need 10-100x more grinders per weapon? 

I think the root of the problem is lack of drops, if people were finding more weapons that they could grind I don't think people would care much if they break and sell the 0/9. But when there are 0 of the new A ranks in shops there's an issue.

I think A ranks shouldn't be as rare as they are especially when they don't always drop in the next rank mission. So who wants to go farm some A rank quest at level 75 to have a 1/100 chance at getting some striking wep that turns out 22%?