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RiggedGaming

MP system adjustment

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While the system as is was intended to make non aoti missions viable to run for mp, it currently does that at the expense of basically every aoti mission across the board. For example, the amount of time it takes to complete Military Subway under the current system makes it totally worthless as a mission for mp. White Beast being another example of across the board mp rates nerfs. The higher the rank of mission you take, the steeper the nerf gets.

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The problem is, if MP values get raised for certain missions, those missions become the ONLY mission that people gravitate towards. This happened in one of the previous test builds where mad creature was being spammed because it gave better MP payouts than most missions. So normalizing MP rates across the board gives every mission a reason to be played. 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Matt said:

those missions become the ONLY mission that people gravitate towards.

Why exactly is that a problem though? All the current system does is incentivize me going through all the missions on each rank available solo, and then finding the quickest mission to do at the lowest rank for the best return on my time investment. As it stands I have no more motivation now with the new system than I did with the old to play random missions besides purely for nostalgia. At the end of the day I and presumably everyone else is going to pick a mission best suited for farming what they're looking for, be it exp, mp, or drops.

This feels like a poorly thought out "one size fits all" solution to a problem better solved by just increasing non aoti mission mp rewards to be comparable to aoti missions. Besides which, some missions being better for certain things is just a natural part of the game. For example, back on official you wanted the best mp? Get together an Egg Thieves party with your friends.

Edited by RiggedGaming

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32 minutes ago, RiggedGaming said:

As it stands I have no more motivation now with the new system than I did with the old to play random missions besides purely for nostalgia

no one is forcing you to play my dude...

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Posted (edited)

Just let MP happen in the background while you farm gear and level PAs. You'll get more overall progression for your time investment by not prioritizing MP, given the currently accessible mission ranks.

Edited by Noodles
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5 hours ago, Noodles said:

Just let MP happen in the background while you farm gear and level PAs. You'll get more overall progression for your time investment by not prioritizing MP, given the currently accessible mission ranks.

Noodles is right. Instead of spamming something like Unsafe Passage C for MP, to maybe get MP slightly faster than normal, you are overall better off doing a mission for your level, and getting exp, meseta, items, and PA exp at the same time. With the new MP system, you will get decent MP from any mission, so you don't need to worry so much about it.

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Posted (edited)

So are Vanilla missions buffed while AotI missions are nerfed in terms of MP, or are just AotI missions nerfed?

I just like the idea of being able to enjoy any mission instead of being like, “I haven’t played this mission in... 8 years!”

If it’s really affecting players’ overall experience, I’ll be for changes. I’d really like there to be a way to make older missions viable, but not at the expense of nerfing popular missions. Tough...

Edited by Metsume
Phone was making first sentence larger than rest

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Posted (edited)

Oooh, wow. I see. So that means Clementine would have to increase mob levels, add mobs and spawn patterns, or what have you to increase MP received? That’s way harder to adjust than just simply changing MP payout.

Is it even possible for Clementine to manually adjust each mission’s MP without mobs considered? I can’t even begin to know how PSU’s code works. How bad would that effect things?

Edited by Metsume

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On 4/27/2019 at 8:54 AM, Midori Hoshi said:

you will get decent MP from any mission

This specifically I take issue with. Unless they increase how generous the calculations are when it comes to determining MP rewards, you in fact get mediocre MP rewards no matter what mission or rank you do, barring rares. If the devs or whoever are absolutely adamant that this new MP system is the way to go, you're going to need to increase MP rewards by a good 50-75% if you want to accomplish the goal of making all missions appealing to play through.

I know I keep using White Beast and such as an example, but it really does illustrate the point I'm trying to make. When doing Demons Above S2 only nets you somewhere around 160-180ish MP under the new system, whereas under the old you could run WB A and get about the same amount at 164, it should be self-evident that something needs to be done.

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This discussion got me thinking and I overall like the changes to how MP is calculated but I do think there are a few tweaks that could be made.

Right now, it feels like bosses don't really get weighed correctly by this new system. It feels like they're considered a normal enemy much like anything else which kinda hurts missions that have bosses in them. Would it be possible to make bosses worth more MP to better match the time and effort it takes to kill them? I know the aim of the current system was to make MP payouts more uniform but this currently has the side effect of making boss missions a bit unrewarding compared to normal missions.

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Posted (edited)

As said earlier, people are going to find grinding spots no matter how many choices they have available, that's just the way some people work; they'd rather find a fast system to get to max level and progress quickly than explore, at least I was one of those people. Given that many of the people that play Clementine, I'm guessing, already played back when the official servers were up, they have no need to explore since they already did years ago; they just want to get to higher level "end game" content. I'd rather wait until the game is more or less fully restored before messing with how the rewards system works, that's something you can figure out later. Psupedia is just a google search away, rewards, drops, and what not are most of the time present and haven't been edited since the psu servers have gone offline. Personally I'm just marathoning C-rank De-ragon over and over again just to get the xp since I'm following a leveling guide that's geared towards the official release xp/rewards, though I'm not sure how accurate it is if the rewards system is messed with. I would play innocent girl or a similar 1 player party mission or with the npc's, since I'm not that great with talking to people, so I can run higher rank stuff without needing to burn through all my health items or be over-leveled.

Edited by Ireonox
re-enforcing old points, new points, redundancy, getting rid of some unrelated content.

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On 4/26/2019 at 1:57 PM, Matt said:

The problem is, if MP values get raised for certain missions, those missions become the ONLY mission that people gravitate towards. This happened in one of the previous test builds where mad creature was being spammed because it gave better MP payouts than most missions. So normalizing MP rates across the board gives every mission a reason to be played. 

I understand where you’re coming from, after all everyone doing one mission all the time is really boring. But you need to understand that a lot of players (particularly the more hardcore crowd) don’t see this as a game to be explored and experimented with, they just see it as a math problem that needs to be solved, and like all math problems, there is only one correct answer. This means that if you make every single mission pay out the same amount, there will be one mission that can be finished 3 seconds faster and that’s the one EVERYONE will do to the exclusion of everything else. Until it’s nerfed, then they’ll move to the second-best one until that one is nerfed and so on. 

 

So what do we do about “the white beast problem”? Well PSO2 had kind of an interesting way of solving it, they would have a handful of missions in a rotation and then give them a +100% experience boost, but only one would be available at a time. This meant that if you played every day, you would have to do a different mission each day to Xp because the other missions wouldn’t be there. This didn’t completely solve the problem because it just led to most people just leveling up on the day when the best mission was available, but it did kind of help spread people out a little because people would do items farms on days when they couldn’t XP. Of course there was more to it there, since they had daily quests also that would spread people out and something like that would be very difficult/impossible to implement here since PSU didn’t have any system like that. Something like a random mission being selected each day for an experience points boost could be added I’m sure, which would kind of help move people around but ultimately it’s a problem that can’t ever be truly solved.

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On 4/26/2019 at 1:57 PM, Matt said:

The problem is, if MP values get raised for certain missions, those missions become the ONLY mission that people gravitate towards.

This has already happened with Unsafe Passage S, Fight for Food S2, Sleeping Warriors S2, and Castle of Monsters S+ (albeit, this mission is just a good all rounder). You cannot stop the discovery of a dominant strategy, you can only make it so that other options aren't completely useless for those who want to run them.

On 4/27/2019 at 4:21 AM, Noodles said:

Just let MP happen in the background while you farm gear and level PAs. You'll get more overall progression for your time investment by not prioritizing MP, given the currently accessible mission ranks.

True, however if you wanted to switch classes and go for a master class, like myself for example, you are stuck farming for MP unless you go "leech" in CoM for MP & EXP, which people have starting doing already. 

 

Now while I feel normalization was a fantastic idea to make all missions relevant, basing it around non-AotI MP standards was completely wrong. For example, Fight for Food S2, which imo is one of the best MP missions for duo+, gives 150-160 MP per clear. This is comparable to Plains Overlord S2 on retail giving 187. However, if you compare to this White Beast (sorry, I know white beast sucks), it only takes A-rank to closely match that at 164 MP per clear, which is drastically easier than Fight for Food S2 based on a rank premise. To use larger outliers, Egg Thieves gives 500 MP per clear on S2, while White Beast S2 gives 257 per clear. Now while I don't feel everything should be Egg Thieves tier, I do believe that normal missions at S+ should be in a 150-300 range, while leaving egg thieves as is due to it requiring a comp (can change on this tbh), to make class leveling faster when you're higher level. Why? Because by those mission ranks you need the extra stats from your type as fast as possible to keep up your damage if you do happen to switch. I should not be stuck farming Unsafe Passage S once I can run S3, but I predict this will be the case if we keep a system like this in the future.

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