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Enemy Damage Formula


milranduil
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Noticed while leveling debuffs that something is messed up about enemy damage formula, with or without a line shield equipped.

Lv35 FNewman fT1 with 33 DFP - with no line shield, I have 33 DFP. A Lv1 Pannon did at most 20 damage to me. With a 12% Dark Me-Senba, I have 117DFP total but I was still taking 16 damage (a reduction of *4*). Lv1 Pannon has 0.75 * 72ATP = 54ATP. Even with a neutral line shield, (enemy ATP - player DFP) is less than 0 which is supposed to be the cut-off to take no damage. 

Even with no line shield equipped (54ATP - 33DFP) is a residual of 21, which if it's divided by any number larger than 3 means I should be taking single digit damage (less than 7), but it's 20. 

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50dark delette line (+135 dfp) - 60dmg taken

megaline (+63 dfp) - 103dmg taken

no armor - 107dmg taken

Before, 5DFP reduced damage taken by 1. Megaline should have been reducing by at the very least 12 less damage, but it's only 4 damage. The intention may have been to make DFP more meaningful, but the opposite seems to be occuring.

Test used here was a Lv30 Pannon which has 325ATP. The residual here in the first test looking at only DFP is (325 - 262) = 63, and the damage taken is still 60 with 50 element. Does enemy to player damage formula really not divide by anything? I'm so confused what's happening here.

Edited by milranduil
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Going to second this report, it feels like line shields (outside of element), as well as DFP in general isn't really doing much - even with a proper element for resistance some enemies are still capable of chunking almost half my health if not more as a FF. I haven't really tested if this is happening with MST too but I'd wager a guess it might be. Hell I'm pretty sure I should be at least seeing some zeroes in C-rank missions by now.

Hope this can get looked at.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just want to bring more attention to this, uh

Both hits were from a Delsaban, for reference I observed my human taking around 10~18 damage, my beast was taking around 16~23

In both cases any elemental resistance provided by my line shield against them was nil, unless I'm missing something here, a gap of 249 DFP only seems to have reduced the damage I was taking by roughly 5. If that.

EVP certainly works as I was evading pretty much 95% of the attacks that got thrown at me on my human, however

This was tested after the most recent patch as well. Can provide more info if needed, but I don't have much time during the day

 

dmgdifference.png

Edited by Helmont
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I've posted our damage formulae to our wiki: https://psu-clementine.net/wiki/index.php/Formulae

I will try to answer questions about them as best as I can, but only one person worked on these formulas, so I generally only know as much as you guys were told about it initially (DFP affecting it differently). Mainly, I know that (with these formulas) DFP is more effective with higher damage, so with lower level damage you will not get large reductions (down to 0 in some cases like on official), but as enemies get stronger and start beating your ass it becomes more effective.

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The issue is there is no flat end to the curve with this new formula. The entire point of farming for higher % line shields (or being a force in general) was that enough MST or DFP meant you could take 0 from various attacks (notably enemy techs to avoid statuses like incap or freeze). This formula *cannot* hit 0 no matter how high the stats are for the player, no matter how good the gear is. That's why it's important for MST or DFP to be subtracted from the enemy's ATP or TP, so that 0 can happen.

This now means a lv50 Deljaben could still incap a lv200/200 Masterforce with a 5 damage megid instead of the 0 it should be up to like lv160 or so with a 50% line shield. A lv50 Bel Pannon can still freeze any player regardless of having 0MST or 10,000MST. For reference, it was extremely common for many enemy techs to do 0 to fT or MF due to the high MST of the class, so you could avoid running resists in place of more favorable body units (like rainbow units). On the other hand, cast melee classes had enough DFP and HP to take less than 5% of their max HP from many enemy melee attacks to prevent blowaway and only be knocked back instead. Both of these get effectively removed, and only cushion the player to heavier attacks...

It should be possible to achieve both linear scaling at low enemy attack values while still maintaining a more effective damage formula for heavier enemy damage. The important inclusion would need to be making sure (ATP - DFP) or (TP-MST) show up.

 

EDIT: I should mention that I agree with turning debuffs into % multis instead of flat atp/dfp/evp reductions to make them more effective, and remain effective no matter what level of play. The issue comes from moving the rest of the formula around.

Edited by milranduil
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