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PA Exp


milranduil
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Last reset, PAs were taking an extremely long time to level meaningfully. Bullets/techs were bad enough that it was more popular to AFK them than manually level them.

Quick example:

Gi-tech took about 58k hits to level from 1-50. Levels after 25 were taking upwards of 45 minutes per level while spamming them with C-ranks. There was an adjustment that took them down to about 24k where it felt more reasonable and closer to what official was like having leveled 2 sets of techs to 50 on NA and JP. 20-30min per level where time spent felt like progression instead of a slugfest watching the number not move.

What should we expect with clem's release? The former? The latter? Something in between? We have no market anymore for selling discs due to a select few people complaining, so I'm curious about the rationale behind the decision if they're still vastly slower than official.

Edited by milranduil
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I know you don't care what I have to say, but I have some advice. You should probably focus on asking Marm to set up a sandbox server instead of trying to get the game changed to make progress way faster. Regardless if PAs level quickly or slowly, you would still have to deal with it taking around 2k hours to level each class, and likely 10s of thousands of hours to get melee weapons to 50% 10/10. PSU is all about the grind. It's supposed to be the kind of game you can play constantly for years and never perfect. And they will keep updating it with higher level caps and new gear, so you will keep having to put a lot of time into improving your characters.

A sandbox server would let anyone use server commands to instantly create any character at any level, spawn items, be invincible, etc. For people like you who would prefer to skip the game and just do TAs, it would be perfect. And I know there are others who think the same way.

Other benefits of having a sandbox server would be a way for anyone to easily and quickly test out an item or idea, along with helping people to access textures easier so they can be edited.

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The deep nature of the game is that there will always be something to optimize. It has to take time, which is one of the pleasure of the game.

Doesn't mean, of course, that you need to afk to level your PA : good news, it was absolutely not the case during last opening test, since I got all lasers/shotgun/rifles and various others PA to 40/50 without having to afk leveling. No reason it has to be different for the true serv.

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1 hour ago, Midori Hoshi said:

I know you don't care what I have to say, but I have some advice. You should probably focus on asking Marm to set up a sandbox server instead of trying to get the game changed to make progress way faster. Regardless if PAs level quickly or slowly, you would still have to deal with it taking around 2k hours to level each class, and likely 10s of thousands of hours to get melee weapons to 50% 10/10. PSU is all about the grind. It's supposed to be the kind of game you can play constantly for years and never perfect. And they will keep updating it with higher level caps and new gear, so you will keep having to put a lot of time into improving your characters.

A sandbox server would let anyone use server commands to instantly create any character at any level, spawn items, be invincible, etc. For people like you who would prefer to skip the game and just do TAs, it would be perfect. And I know there are others who think the same way.

Other benefits of having a sandbox server would be a way for anyone to easily and quickly test out an item or idea, along with helping people to access textures easier so they can be edited.

this is why i don't discuss with you bro because you are incapable of understanding perspective. i've always liked the ability to put time into PSU and it be meaningful, to see gradual character growth, even more so still than PSO2. it's why i remain nostalgic about the game. when PA EXP was *worse than official* last time, it was a big problem. 

i honestly don't even know why i'm replying to you. you are incapable of understanding that i want things to be easier (closer to official), not easy. relative vs. absolute. for example, if MP is balanced around vanilla standards instead of AotI standards, i'll have an issue with that too. it's needlessly making the game more grindy than it used to be simply because of 1 person's idea that it's "too easy".

Edited by milranduil
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OK then. Hopefully the PA exp is good. And considering how much MP we will need to reach class LV 100 or 200, it would be strange if MP was closer to the vanilla rates.

I still think it would be nice if we had a sandbox server at some point, as long as it's not too difficult or expensive for Marm to set up. It probably wouldn't exceed more than a handful of players at any one time, so one universe would be enough.

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3 hours ago, Midori Hoshi said:

OK then. Hopefully the PA exp is good. And considering how much MP we will need to reach class LV 100 or 200, it would be strange if MP was closer to the vanilla rates.

I still think it would be nice if we had a sandbox server at some point, as long as it's not too difficult or expensive for Marm to set up. It probably wouldn't exceed more than a handful of players at any one time, so one universe would be enough.

i agree with the MP point.

 

to be clear, i don't think a sandbox server is a bad idea for the reasons you mentioned. but it's not what i'm particularly interested. i want the grind, but more to the point one that is fair.

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I am literally dying of laughter. My sweet cherry elite pies, of course they will cut experience, meseta, pa exp, mp and everything in the world, otherwise both of you will reach the cap in one day and  will get bored with us, and when you are bored, it breaks my heart ❤️

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3 hours ago, SHOTGUN said:

I am literally dying of laughter. My sweet cherry elite pies, of course they will cut experience, meseta, pa exp, mp and everything in the world, otherwise both of you will reach the cap in one day and  will get bored with us, and when you are bored, it breaks my heart ❤️

Even if I play constantly, it will take me forever to level 9 total classes spread over 4 chars, which includes getting melee weps and shadoogs at 50% 10/10. I'm not only playing MF like I used to. That class is the easiest to perfect. I'm doing WT, GT, and AF.

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I've leveled two rifle bullets, Frozen Shot and Burning Shot to 11 easily so far. I know this doesn't mean much but so far, the PA exp for rifles at least doesn't feel to outrageous or anything. Thought it would be nice if certain ones like Resta or Reverser got a slight increase.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Bumping this to share my own experience with PA leveling.

-Skills: some of them feel reasonable, namely rising crush, buten, and renkai. Some of the PAs, particularly ones with less hits to them, feel rather sluggish which tells me the EXP curves for them are not uniform with respect to hit count over time. Something that hits 12 times quickly on part1 (renkai) would I hope not have the same or a similar curve to something like rising strike (4 times on part1) which should then be different from say Anga Jabroga (10 hits but over a 5 second wind-up). This was a very, very big issue with spinning strike last test which required more than 30,000 hits (more than most techs!) to hit lv50 for a PA that hits 4 times total in a 1-2 combo.

-Bullets: these feel like the biggest offenders for me. Particularly with shotgun and xbow's abyssmal early accuracy, leveling these on a new char feels nightmarish compounded with the # of 0s (which do not count to EXP). Many I feel could use an EXP boost across the board. 

-Techs: these felt reasonable # wise. RA-techs could use a slightly AoE boost lv1-10 to make hitting things a little easier, but this was my only complaint for techs so far.

Edited by milranduil
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On 10/30/2020 at 9:56 PM, Midori Hoshi said:

I know you don't care what I have to say, but I have some advice. You should probably focus on asking Marm to set up a sandbox server instead of trying to get the game changed to make progress way faster. Regardless if PAs level quickly or slowly, you would still have to deal with it taking around 2k hours to level each class, and likely 10s of thousands of hours to get melee weapons to 50% 10/10. PSU is all about the grind. It's supposed to be the kind of game you can play constantly for years and never perfect. And they will keep updating it with higher level caps and new gear, so you will keep having to put a lot of time into improving your characters.

A sandbox server would let anyone use server commands to instantly create any character at any level, spawn items, be invincible, etc. For people like you who would prefer to skip the game and just do TAs, it would be perfect. And I know there are others who think the same way.

Other benefits of having a sandbox server would be a way for anyone to easily and quickly test out an item or idea, along with helping people to access textures easier so they can be edited.

 

I second this post it seems to just be getting worse and worse in the RPG scene no one wants to earn anything anymore everyone wants the easy road all i have read on this forum is  exp rate this exp rate that why anyone would play a game designed around grinding and complain that the grind is taking too long is beyond me but mayb just release a server with commands for thos who are in such a rush to go no where? seems like the only solution to me because no matter what you do you wont satisfy everyone when it comes to this subject 

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5 hours ago, Deathsway said:

 

I second this post it seems to just be getting worse and worse in the RPG scene no one wants to earn anything anymore everyone wants the easy road all i have read on this forum is  exp rate this exp rate that why anyone would play a game designed around grinding and complain that the grind is taking too long is beyond me but mayb just release a server with commands for thos who are in such a rush to go no where? seems like the only solution to me because no matter what you do you wont satisfy everyone when it comes to this subject 

i think it's funny because the very person you quoted later *agreed* that the grind was far too harsh compared to official with the base type MP stuff. feedback is how the server is improved, it's really that simple

Edited by milranduil
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6 hours ago, Deathsway said:

 

I second this post it seems to just be getting worse and worse in the RPG scene no one wants to earn anything anymore everyone wants the easy road all i have read on this forum is  exp rate this exp rate that why anyone would play a game designed around grinding and complain that the grind is taking too long is beyond me but mayb just release a server with commands for thos who are in such a rush to go no where? seems like the only solution to me because no matter what you do you wont satisfy everyone when it comes to this subject 

Yeah. I was assuming that it wasn't that bad, but it turns out it actually was. Mil was right to complain. Even for someone like me who loves a long grind, there is a point where it becomes unreasonable.

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Remember when PSO GC/X came out and we had to grind out nearly 84 million exp, no exp tickets, subclasses, or exp rewards? It was just you and the grind. maybe average 300, 450, or 600 exp per enemy (not counting bosses) in the top difficulty. I only ever legitimately leveled one character to 200, a horribly matted Racaseal (108 Def Mats of stupid). Now that server was basically destroyed, I had to rebuild and I've gotten 3 chars into the 190+ range. Hucast, Racast, and Racaseal. But the reward for someone like me level capping is something I'll never forget.

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2 hours ago, Its_Lorelei said:

we had to grind out nearly 84 million exp

You're omitting the fact that half of that exp gets you to level 181. The rest of the levels are effectively for show, especially with the fact that you have stat caps that you can easily hit or get close to even with a half-assed mat plan. Not to mention you only really needed to realistically get to about 140 or so before you start hitting the comfort zone for doing Ultimate difficulty safely in all areas. As a result, going past that level for the purposes of trying to "prepare yourself" more could be arguably considered to be overkill depending on who you ask.

Edited by Leonalmasy
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That and you get those levels in pso1 by playing the game with a party, with some variety to choose.

idk how anyone can call spamming the same pa/bullet/tech alone  repeating the same old mission playing the game

and by not leveling said pas, you would be leeching, which would ruin people trying to play the game optimally.

Not only would you make the runs slower, but also apply a drop nothing rate and give enemies more hp.

 

And asides, if they want us to level pas normally without the use of afk scripts, at least make it bearable

Edited by warriorop
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/30/2020 at 7:55 PM, milranduil said:

Last reset, PAs were taking an extremely long time to level meaningfully. Bullets/techs were bad enough that it was more popular to AFK them than manually level them.

Quick example:

Gi-tech took about 58k hits to level from 1-50. Levels after 25 were taking upwards of 45 minutes per level while spamming them with C-ranks. There was an adjustment that took them down to about 24k where it felt more reasonable and closer to what official was like having leveled 2 sets of techs to 50 on NA and JP. 20-30min per level where time spent felt like progression instead of a slugfest watching the number not move.

What should we expect with clem's release? The former? The latter? Something in between? We have no market anymore for selling discs due to a select few people complaining, so I'm curious about the rationale behind the decision if they're still vastly slower than official.

This is an interesting topic I never thought much about. I'm content with SEGA's original leveling speed for PAs. I never had an issue.

I think SEGA anticipated Resta & Reverser to be used with much more frequency based on how slow they level, but the enemies just weren't tough enough. Drua Gohra for example goes down as soon as it appears with its 4 hitboxes, like Charizard with its 4x stealth rock weakness in Pokemon.

I noticed all the disks for sale were Lv1 in this final server version. I didn't know Lv2+ disks couldn't be sold anymore in player shops! That's news to me.

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On 11/13/2020 at 5:48 AM, milranduil said:

i think it's funny because the very person you quoted later *agreed* that the grind was far too harsh compared to official with the base type MP stuff. feedback is how the server is improved, it's really that simple

is this the real JP god milranduil?!?! bruh your endless runs are insane. big fan!

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12 hours ago, Keystone said:

This is an interesting topic I never thought much about. I'm content with SEGA's original leveling speed for PAs. I never had an issue.

Thing is sega also had stuff like x2 pa exp, and a x2 pa exp booster in jp for some GC, and some misisons that also costsed GC dedicated to farming pa levels, at least on jp side.

http://psupedia.info/Special%3ASearch/Special_Weeks.html

http://psupedia.info/RELICS_Preservation.html

http://psupedia.info/GC_Shop.html

I'm unsure if Clem touched the pa exp rates as I never played official servers, but if we're not getting x2 pa exp events then I'd assume they did hopefully.

Edited by warriorop
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