Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Keystone

CAST/Beast Techer-Help Idea

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Hi, Clemers.

Here's an idea that's been floating around in my brain for a while now. A line shield to help CAST/Beast techers, but create an experience different from Human/Newman teching...

 

Rabol Familiar / Wish Line

    CAST/Beast only
    No body slot
    DEF 150 EVA 150 MST 150 STA -5
    10-star
    75 DEF req.
    
A special line shield that syncs with Technic weapons to make them feel less foreign to CASTs and Beasts.

----------------------------------------------

The following could occur as a set bonus with Me / Quick, Har / Quick, etc. if need be.

PROS:

    TP + LV*5 (+900 at LV180)
        LV180 CAST       LV20 FT TP: 2678 = 1778 + 900
        LV180 Beast       LV20 FT TP: 2945 = 2045 + 900
        LV180 Human    LV20 FT TP: 2667
        LV180 Newman LV20 FT TP: 3113

    You can neutralize Technics' element by neutralizing the wand/rod they're equipped to
        (like how bullets/skills on neutral weapons have no element)
        
        Example: this can give you the opportunity to hit SEED with Megid for good damage!
        If Technics neutralized in this way could eventually be made green later in Clementine
        development, that would be a bonus!

CONS:

    STA - 5 and no body slot

    Technics also now affected by accuracy

        (EDIT: this could be off of a multiplier of level, crit chance, base stamina/end.,
        or some other racial constant if low beast accuracy is a concern)

        Or you could give an ACC bonus equal to CAST accuracy at you level,
        and then treat technics as having a 50% ACC modifier, like this:

            technic_accuracy = 0.5 * (my_ACC + CAST_ACC_at_my_level)

            That would halve the difference between Beast & CAST accuracy,
            and you could go even further if need be.

----------------------------------------------

If you don't agree with this idea, how would you boost CAST & Beast techers in a way that makes them different from Human & Newman techers?

Edited by Keystone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Keystone said:

If you don't agree with this idea, how would you boost CAST & Beast techers in a way that makes them different from Human & Newman techers?

I flat-out wouldn't. Part of the unique charm of PSU is that the races are good at different things. Making CASTs and Beasts better at teching is directly in contest with the concept of making a character of that race, which is that you should be making a Gunner or Fighter if you wanted ideal damage output, respectively. Making Technics affected by accuracy is also never going to be popular in any capacity, no matter the circumstances of it; It would also fuck over Beast Techers way more than any bonus this would give.

I respect the drive to contribute, Keystone - I really do. But this suggestion is, in my opinion, something that goes directly against the general makeup of PSU's core gameplay mechanics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, LadyRena said:

I flat-out wouldn't. Part of the unique charm of PSU is that the races are good at different things. Making CASTs and Beasts better at teching is directly in contest with the concept of making a character of that race, which is that you should be making a Gunner or Fighter if you wanted ideal damage output, respectively. Making Technics affected by accuracy is also never going to be popular in any capacity, no matter the circumstances of it; It would also fuck over Beast Techers way more than any bonus this would give.

I respect the drive to contribute, Keystone - I really do. But this suggestion is, in my opinion, something that goes directly against the general makeup of PSU's core gameplay mechanics.

How would it fuck over Beast techers? It's an optional line shield. You could still equip arm slots that boost accuracy.

Also, the accuracy of any Technic could be based off a multiplier of something greater than 100%, or the line shield could boost accuracy as part of a set bonus if it was enough of a problem for Beasts. You know for a fact that an optional line shield making technics affected by accuracy could never be popular? You KNOW that.

I've heard people complain that CAST TP was too low before, so just because something isn't popular with you doesn't mean everyone would feel the same way. What would be wrong with "don't like it, don't use it"?

BTW, something not having majority popularity doesn't mean it couldn't have value to part of a community. In the United States, we have an electoral college, which lets us avoid having the coasts determine all our elections exclusively.

Edited by Keystone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to bet good money that I don't see the problem as you seem to see the problem with Beast/Cast techers. There are a good number of techs that don't need to do damage to get the point across and FT, as you have in your example, has access to a collection of melee and ranged options. FT lets you drop T4 buffs and debuffs on yourself and enemies to increase your damage output and survivability as well as T4 support techs like subarta for applying copious amounts of "No, you cant do that to my beautiful face." You have access to bows for long range play as well as whips if you want to get in close and drop some more status effects. Because of these available options, I still see a beast techer or cast techer being able to hold their own as well as play in a very unique sapper style role in most groups. Being able to pull a really big number out of your pants to drop on a svaltus' head is always fun but at the same time, its not the only way to play.

Then we get into the problem of counter play and heaven forbid "balance." Should humans get a racial line shield that boosts their tech/melee/range stats? Should Neumans get a shield that ups their melee capabilities? There's a lot of creep with adding in more racial items that can quickly fall down a massive rabbit hole of making sure every race/class has counter plays against each other. Maybe adding in racial cosmetics for global general use would be an easier way to get the playstyle you are looking for while still getting the aesthetic of the character you want to play as? Build a Neuman then style them with beast ears or cast with a full mecha bodysuit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bramble said:

Should humans get a racial line shield that boosts their tech/melee/range stats? Should Neumans get a shield that ups their melee capabilities?

They both actually get weaker SUV extra units now on their line shields, but to illustrate the CAST TP deficit:

- a CAST Masterforce has 1281 less TP than a Newman Masterforce

- a Newman Fighmaster has 528 less ATP than a Beast Fighmaster

(LV180, class LV20, genders with highest respective stats)

It's not that CASTs can't play techer types like Guntecher or Wartecher, or that they're even bad necessarily, but your probably not gonna be depending on your offensive Technics nearly as much as bullets/skills. That's all.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Keystone said:

It's not that CASTs can't play techer types like Guntecher or Wartecher, or that they're even bad necessarily, but your probably not gonna be depending on your offensive Technics nearly as much as bullets/skills. That's all.

Congratulations, you just got the point of the racial stat imbalances in PSU: you're not supposed to rely on technics as a CAST or Beast over bullets and skills, respectively. Let's get down to business.

13 hours ago, Keystone said:

How would it fuck over Beast techers? It's an optional line shield. You could still equip arm slots that boost accuracy.

Beasts have the lowest accuracy and already suffer early on in the melee game. Technics not relying on ATA is already part of their entire package - and part of the reason to consider technics as a Beast at all. Until you're high enough level where the ATA just doesn't matter anymore, Beasts couldn't reliably land hits with technics. Sure, they can equip arm slots - but no arm slot is going to make "based on accuracy" jump to "never misses", like the other options.

13 hours ago, Keystone said:

Also, the accuracy of any Technic could be based off a multiplier of something greater than 100%, or the line shield could boost accuracy as part of a set bonus if it was enough of a problem for Beasts. You know for a fact that an optional line shield making technics affected by accuracy could never be popular? You KNOW that.

I literally suggested that Technics should be affected by accuracy before and was shot down by everyone who read my suggestion. Yes, I know for a fact from that experience that "technics using ATA" is unpopular. It's very apparent to anyone who spends any time listening to the community. As to a higher-than-100% mod...doesn't having to suggest that just prove that Beasts don't have the ATA to make it work?

13 hours ago, Keystone said:

I've heard people complain that CAST TP was too low before, so just because something isn't popular with you doesn't mean everyone would feel the same way. What would be wrong with "don't like it, don't use it"?

People thinking that CAST TP is too low is not the same as making "let's add a unique CAST Line Shield that makes using technics drastically different" a good idea. Of course not everyone would feel the same way, but the people who play CAST Techers are a minority in the community, because again, the game is centered around each race having strengths and weaknesses. Humans are the "average joe" race, Beasts are the "strong-but-inaccurate" race, CASTs are the "good-but-magically-inept" race, and Newmen are the "fragile-but-magical" race. If I don't like it, I'm fully allowed to express my opinion and point out that the game itself is designed around the opposite of what you're suggesting; I don't have to wait for it to be added and then pointedly ignore it.

 

13 hours ago, Keystone said:

BTW, something not having majority popularity doesn't mean it couldn't have value to part of a community. In the United States, we have an electoral college, which lets us avoid having the coasts determine all our elections exclusively.

Hoh, you're bringing politics in to a PSU discussion? Real wise move there. Real good stuff.

 

If you're worried about the CAST TP thing, just suggest that CASTs get a higher TP score, instead of a custom item that modifies how the techer classes play entirely...It's a lot of extra work, especially considering they're focusing on base functionality, not custom content.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you want to mostly use melee and / or guns? Play as beast or cast.

Do you want to mostly use attack techs? Newman is the easy choice there.

Want to do everything? That's what human is for.

This is the kind of decision that everyone should make when they first start the game. If you are unsure of how the game works and don't know what class(s) or playstyles are for you, a good suggestion is to play as human until you figure it out, then start a new character of a different race if needed.

 

I'm in favor of balance changes if we can determine they make sense and improve the game. But something like this one doesn't seem needed. Maybe a better idea to accomplish the same end-goal would be to add a way for players to change their race for a very large meseta cost and / or limit a race change to once a month or whatever.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Keystone said:

It's not that CASTs can't play techer types like Guntecher or Wartecher, or that they're even bad necessarily, but your probably not gonna be depending on your offensive Technics nearly as much as bullets/skills. That's all.

Congratulations, you just got the point of the racial stat imbalances in PSU: you're not supposed to rely on technics as a CAST or Beast over bullets and skills, respectively. Let's get down to business.

You could say that about the Acrogunner type that was added. A type with that combination of weapons wasn't in the game originally because we weren't supposed to have access to all of them in one type.

There were initially gender stat differences as well, and I'm not even going as far as to advocate a permanent stat change that affects all players. I'm proposing an optional line shield.

As to a higher-than-100% mod...doesn't having to suggest that just prove that Beasts don't have the ATA to make it work?

I edited my original post to say the accuracy applied could be pulled from some racial constant, like level or critical hit chance.

23 hours ago, Keystone said:

BTW, something not having majority popularity doesn't mean it couldn't have value to part of a community. In the United States, we have an electoral college, which lets us avoid having the coasts determine all our elections exclusively.

Hoh, you're bringing politics in to a PSU discussion? Real wise move there. Real good stuff.

I don't think I brought in politics in a way different from you. You put forth majority rules, and I just said that's not the only system in existence. The leader of the free world isn't picked by popular vote, for example (however you feel about him).

If you're worried about the CAST TP thing, just suggest that CASTs get a higher TP score, instead of a custom item that modifies how the techer classes play entirely...It's a lot of extra work, especially considering they're focusing on base functionality, not custom content.

I don't suggest that CASTs get a higher TP score exclusively because that would be changing rather than adding, basically.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, to address some overlaying issues being raised...

1.) The line shield wouldn't be as useful for beasts

I'm not proposing this line shield to achieve exact equality for beasts & CAST techers. If the line shield were useful for CASTs, but could be equipped by beasts as a goof, that means it can't be in the game? Is that really a fair argument?

Right now, almost every rod in the game besides Rutsularod functions as a goof, but no one would say all the other rods can't be in the game. There's probably lots of inferior equipment that no one argues can't be in the game.

2.) The Clementine team has more important stuff to work on

I am entirely aware of that, and I'm not arguing that all my ideas, which I post a lot of, should have precedence.

My topics though sometimes get hundreds of views. I give people something to read while the server is down, and maybe even something to dump on if they hate my ideas. When the server is back up, you may not even have to hear from me as often. Hurray for haters!

3.) Most people would hate this idea

If 40% of people instead of 51% wanted a strange line shield later down the development road that eventually let them fire off inaccurate green technics, does that really affect the majority who would supposedly hate it? I think even haters would like an excuse to see green Foie. You just don't know it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keystone, you're addressing something that isn't a problem, as if it were a problem. This doesn't need to be solved - Phantasy Star Universe ran for six years with majority human/newman techers under SEGA, and it continued to do so under Clementine's staff.

I could look at all the parts of my response that you ignored to make your point; I could posit that you don't have a response to those parts and were cherrypicking; I could point out all sorts of things here, but it's not worth it because it detracts from the main deal, which is that we are arguing over something that's not even an issue in the grand scheme of things.

The 'problem' put forward is that "CASTs and Beasts are too weak at using Technics". They have other specialties that their weaknesses balance against. That is how game balance works. Unless we restructure the entire game to work like PSO2, where racial stat differences are so very minor and everything is determined by class and gear, CASTs will never be good Techers and Beasts will never have amazing accuracy.

Because that's a core part of the game's balance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone, please keep it to presenting your points instead of attacking the other person for having a different opinion. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if an opinion of someone who never had the pleasure to play PSU back in time counts much. But i did play a lot of pso, and there, casts were banned from the techer life. Which were kind of understandable, because we all had us our own set classes. As PSU granted us (well as pso2) the way to have casts use spells, i were amused by it! But for say, you can make a hybrid class for cast, that can both use either guns and/or swords , and also magic. This is pretty fun way to keep some time to spend explore the game, make a good and new memories. But reading the stats, and how much it would change, i think it would just concentrate to create like only beasts and casts. As for a newman, who should be the best on the tech tree, got almost as much power as a beast? So unless each race, or each class (dependless from race that case) could get a custom item for endgame, or something at the start, but minor. To make an either more focused goal for your character, or a tiny little boost early on.

But either way, it would not be wise to boost any race/class way too much, to the point that other classes/races would not worth playing at all.

So if i can vote for something (which i would rather not) is

Either make custom weapons and armors for every race (with fact what they should focus for as like a master class, which would be plain silly)

Or

Make custom gear for each classes (expect the basic hunter, ranger, force) that would be unique to only them, nothing highly overpowered. But something extra, that could make them smile at either early or late game. But yet again, such weapon or armor should not drive the players on farming Only them.

Hope you guys have a wonderful holiday! ❤️

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, LadyRena said:

Keystone, you're addressing something that isn't a problem, as if it were a problem. This doesn't need to be solved - Phantasy Star Universe ran for six years with majority human/newman techers under SEGA, and it continued to do so under Clementine's staff.

I could look at all the parts of my response that you ignored to make your point; I could posit that you don't have a response to those parts and were cherrypicking; I could point out all sorts of things here, but it's not worth it because it detracts from the main deal, which is that we are arguing over something that's not even an issue in the grand scheme of things.

The 'problem' put forward is that "CASTs and Beasts are too weak at using Technics". They have other specialties that their weaknesses balance against. That is how game balance works. Unless we restructure the entire game to work like PSO2, where racial stat differences are so very minor and everything is determined by class and gear, CASTs will never be good Techers and Beasts will never have amazing accuracy.

Because that's a core part of the game's balance.

If you concede that a lot of technics are useless for CASTs in particular, but don't think it would be worthwhile to add equipment that could make these technics useful while attempting to provide a different experience from Human & Newman techers, I guess we can agree to disagree.

Imagine that there's an Orc race. Its technics are affected by accuracy, and it can neutralize technics by neutralizing the wand/rod they're equipped to. The Orc race has low stamina.

Catch: the Orc race is actually a line shield equipable by CASTs & Beasts. That's all I'm proposing. It's quicker than making a new race.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive been following this closer than I would like and here at reply, what 12? 13 now? I still need one core point clarified.

1 hour ago, Keystone said:

If you concede that a lot of technics are useless for CASTs in particular, but don't think it would be worthwhile to add equipment that could make these technics useful while attempting to provide a different experience from Human & Newman techers, I guess we can agree to disagree.

Specifically the last part of this. What you seem to be asking for is a bit of gear that amps TP for the races that already suffer from lower TP base at no real cost to the players of those races. This piece of gear would then allow players for CAST and Beast toons to do exactly what humans and nuemans do out of the gate. I do not understand how this would make a "unique" experience for those players without reworking how techs handle from the ground up for all races to accommodate the accuracy mechanics that you have mentioned. The draws backs for playing a techer are predominantly the vulnerability periods while casting, using heavy amounts of pp to cast, and having lower defensive capabilities than their melee counterparts. Adding in accuracy on top of the existing systems would skew things way out of place. Not even to mention the amount of work required to put such a system in place.

There were cat ear hair options in the customization shop as well as cosmetic robo clothing pieces that you can use to make the character you want to play the character you want to be as well. I am aware that these options are significantly less convenient than the character creator system but they are what is on hand if you want a techer that plays like a human but looks like a beast or cast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Bramble said:

Ive been following this closer than I would like and here at reply, what 12? 13 now? I still need one core point clarified.

Specifically the last part of this. What you seem to be asking for is a bit of gear that amps TP for the races that already suffer from lower TP base at no real cost to the players of those races. This piece of gear would then allow players for CAST and Beast toons to do exactly what humans and nuemans do out of the gate. I do not understand how this would make a "unique" experience for those players without reworking how techs handle from the ground up for all races to accommodate the accuracy mechanics that you have mentioned. The draws backs for playing a techer are predominantly the vulnerability periods while casting, using heavy amounts of pp to cast, and having lower defensive capabilities than their melee counterparts. Adding in accuracy on top of the existing systems would skew things way out of place. Not even to mention the amount of work required to put such a system in place.

There were cat ear hair options in the customization shop as well as cosmetic robo clothing pieces that you can use to make the character you want to play the character you want to be as well. I am aware that these options are significantly less convenient than the character creator system but they are what is on hand if you want a techer that plays like a human but looks like a beast or cast.

An overlaying issue I want to cut against is the binary view of change to the game held by a lot of the community.

You either eliminate gender stat differences or keep them. You either eliminate race stat differences or keep them.

This general perspective on a lot of issues I don't approach the game with.

If female techers were considered too strong and male fighters/gunners too strong, I would have maybe raised the male techer & female gunner/fighter critical hit rates or status-infliction rates. Or maybe female gunners' traps might do 5% more damage.

Yes, it requires more work my way. (And I'm not arguing ideas like mine should be worked on now and have precedence over finishing the server.) But I think that's how you make the game better. Prioritizing trying to keep/provide a unique experience while making a change.

You say:

    This piece of gear would then allow players for CAST and Beast toons
    to do exactly what humans and nuemans do out of the gate.

I don't think you can say exactly how humans and newmans play, but you can help me make it different if you feel that way. If you take the binary view that CAST techers in particular should either be made the same as Newman/Human techers through a stat boost alone or kept as they are, then we can agree to disagree that that binary perspective is the only approach available to improving the game.

Edit: there are other ideas I had for the line shield like the following, but I wanted to keep it simpler so I didn't include these:

    Incapacitate fails on elemental technics and
    burn/freeze/shock/silence fail on neutralized technics (like most bullets)

    The third hit in a row with Gi-technics inflicts blowaway (like Tornado Break)

Edited by Keystone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is going to be my final reply to this topic and I want to address quite a bit of what you are asking for, offer some currently available "unique" playstyles, and end with my own recommendations.

There are two very different MMORPG balancing philosophies, the more modern approach of, keep everything level so that it will be easier to project how players will clear content and progress, and the more archaic philosophy of, if it fits let it fly. There's a reason I enjoyed EVE online for what it was, where the systems of small gang combat got very complex very quickly, it made damage challenging and even more so if a player in your target gang made it their job to deny damage through ecm or logi. A more modern example is FFXIV, where race doesn't mater and when you get to max level you just setup a hard timed macro of your rotation, stand in a safe spot and go make lunch mid raid. There are tons of reasons why more players play FFXIV today than play EVE, simplified, in FFXIV you don't need to run through missile trajectory interactions against a target at speed in your head. On the other side of the coin, in EVE your character's appearance has no real effort or weight. In FFXIV appearance is everything to the point where there are in game fashion (Glamour) systems and a real money item to reroll your toon's race/gender/appearance. Phantasy Star Universe is a product of its time, some of the systems and mechanics have definitely been improved by systems in PSO2 and more recent titles by other studios. My concern is that PSO2 also simplified a lot of systems from PSO and PSU. Because of what I enjoy, because of the complexities it creates, and because of the creativity it can inspire, I am not at all in favor of removing racial base stat differences.

With my viewpoint out of the way, lets actually get started. There are two mechanically complex concepts that you bring up in the seed post; having techs require accuracy, or a system where techs have a failure state on hit, and non-elemental or neutral techs. Giving techs accuracy would require the entire damage stack for techs to be reworked. Weapons would need to be rebalanced to accommodate for lost damage, attack speeds would need to be reconsidered, monster hitpoints and elemental weaknesses would need to be reevaluated, technic PP costs per tier would need to be adjusted, player damage modifiers would need to be scaled. This would most likely add months of downtime or just have FO classes unusable for an extended period after Clementine's launch. To further complicate things, since damage can fail, there would be max hit creep as well which would put Beasts and Casts farther behind in max hit and damage per minute. This would also cripple tech casting for Humans as they have worse accuracy than Casts and Neumans and with this +900TP line shield in play, humans would be outclassed by Casts who would now be preferred picks for FO/HU/RA classes. It would be impossible to maintain multiple simultaneous approaches to how techs work so keeping this accuracy option as an option only to the line shield would not be maintainable in the long run without increasing the balancing workload by a quarter just to maintain a line shield. This means their patreon needs to triple or the accuracy systemic change would have to affect all or nothing. In this case it would be best if this never happened. You gain semi-viable damage techer beasts, gain Cast supremacy in FO roles, lose human viability in FO and AT roles. Imagine if a last second Resta "missed."

Your second mechanical suggestion is much simpler but offers its own complications. Techs are inherently elemental, they do a portion of their damage as that element and that portion is calculated as the elemental effect. Right now if you have a 0% elem rod, there is no modifier on the elemental % of that tech, you just get the base %. if you have 2 or more techs of the same element on a wand or rod the elemental bonus of the weapon is additive (Someone with source access please verify this for me please.). This gives you Base + Weapon mod for the elemental effect. This can be manipulated already against resisting targets by dropping the weapons % to 0. Removing the elemental base % from a tech could lead to very interesting mechanics in the long run and I would like to challenge anyone reading this to come up with a Yetch, RaYetch, GiYetch, and NosYetch non-elemental techs that gain whatever element their weapon is or run as neutral without weapon element. The other option for neutral techs is if you setup negative elemental mods off of weapons. For example if you have Zonde, RaZonde, Gizonde, and Diga on a rod, should that rod gain a Lightning elemental bonus? Should that elemental bonus overwrite the base elemental bonus of Diga to make it lightning aspect? Hopefully you can see the problems with this approach. If these weapon elemental %s were to overwrite existing tech base %s you would have people running NosDiga as any element that they need. Unfortunately I see the best option is creating new neutral techs that simply gain whatever element % their weapon gives them rather than reworking how elemental weapons work. I'm also assuming that adding new stuff is easier than breaking all the stuff we already have. That being said, making new techs from scratch is no small feat and having them interact in the current systems would be harder still.

You keep mentioning setting up new "unique" playstyles for Beast and Cast players. The sapper method from my first post works better than it would seem. Lets take a look at what else is available. For WT your tech cap is at 30 meaning you don't get the best, you don't get the worst. Its a very tanky class, so think of it less as "I'm the tank!" and think of it more as "I am the anchor that keeps my team in mission." You can focus heavily on freezes, stuns, and paralyzing to quickly lock a room down and get your team back up. DamBarta, SuZonde, SuBarta are already in the game and let you do this. To a lesser extent, NosDiga as well with the stun procs. You can run a debuffing or freezing whip in your main hand and heal in your off to help your team keep the pressure on without having to duck for items. You also have access to plenty of heavy weapons to help said team crush through whats in front of you. The class as I have described it here will not be a favorite amongst damage players but if you are running with a tight knit group this would allow your team to push through harder content without breaking the bank.

My recommendation for Masterforce will get me plenty of hate, I accept this. Procing Fire and Virus status effects deal a percentage of the targets hp per tick. If you decide to go with MF as a beast it may be in your better interest to focus on boss-killing techs as well as spreading damage overtime effects to everything you can reach. This style of play comes no where close to the raw damage output of a hard tech slinging Neuman, to be fair, not much does. Which leads me to my recommendation, a head unit that cuts TP by 130 but causes status effects to proc twice as often. Unfortunately, I'm afraid such an item may be impossible to create without introducing a lot of extra problems with the live build of the game but it would offer a great deal of options for DoT builds and an even weirder array of kite builds. The drawbacks for the item are not just in the TP cut either, freezes and stuns would end up breaking in half the time which removes a lot of control options from the build. If you were to add this item to most of the boosted status effect chance items in the game, it would work outside of the FO classes as well.

And there you have it, two recommendations, some playstyles that will have the try-hards down my throat, and hopefully an understanding as to why I don't entirely agree with your points. Have yourself a wonderful day, stay safe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All this seems to be a lot of wasted energy for not very important considerations. Especially when a lot of ideas has been spread there and here to improve the experience for more important stuff like endgame or weapon balance. Anyway, each game has it own logic and context, and here it is not recommended to be protranser with a newman or techer with a beast. Since it's the gamedesign, doesn't sound like an issue or potential issue to me.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 3/15/2020 at 11:21 AM, Aelphasy said:

All this seems to be a lot of wasted energy for not very important considerations. Especially when a lot of ideas has been spread there and here to improve the experience for more important stuff like endgame or weapon balance. Anyway, each game has it own logic and context, and here it is not recommended to be protranser with a newman or techer with a beast. Since it's the gamedesign, doesn't sound like an issue or potential issue to me.

 

 

Hi, Aelphasy.

Remember the Creawand? Beast and CAST exclusive. Are you implying that was an accident on SEGA's part?

Also, by in-game recommendation, I assume you mean racial stat bonuses for classes. There's no racial stat bonus (implying a racial recommendation) for Masterforce, and if you still took the position that there was an implied master class racial recommendation, a CAST for example has to level Force to 3 & Guntecher to 10 to become a Gunmaster.

Also, Clementine sometimes goes against PSU game logic. Like by eliminating gender stat differences.

Just saying.

 

Edit:

You and some others say it's "a lot of wasted energy" or "a lot of work."

Let me show you what adding Technic accuracy to one line shield might look like:

 

There's probably a method for Technics that reads:

    damage_player()

with the damage between the parenthesis. There's probably another that reads:

    get_accuracy()

 

All I do is encode the former in the following:

    if (line_shield != "rabol familiar" || random(1) < get_accuracy())

        damage_player(damage);

    else

        damage_player(0);

 

Thats it. With random(1) being a random number between 1 and 0, assuming get_accuracy() returns a number between 1 and 0. The "||" just means "or." The "!=" means "is not equal to."

Edited by Keystone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The most important stats for MF are TP and EVP. Newman is best at both of them. There is no debate whatsoever about which race is best for MF. The other races having more HP for survival or more ATP for SUV weapon damage are nice but absolutely not worth losing TP and EVP over.

At least for the melee and gun classes, there are some situations where beast can do better than cast, and vice versa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
Quote

Also, Clementine sometimes goes against PSU game logic. Like by eliminating gender stat differences.

I was among the people who wanted this suppression, because it unnecessarily limits the choice. A gender should never determine stats. It's very different than the race question.

Quote

Also, by in-game recommendation, I assume you mean racial stat bonuses for classes. There's no racial stat bonus (implying a racial recommendation) for Masterforce, and if you still took the position that there was an implied master class racial recommendation, a CAST for example has to level Force to 3 & Guntecher to 10 to become a Gunmaster.

Guntecher is just a step to reach Gunmaster, is doesn't means that cast deserve some balance by having more TP. Also, the point of Guntecher is being a support techers with ranged playstyle (especially bows and crossbows) so again, you don't need TP for that. In a very situationnal way, offensive techs can be useful as GT, but only for cc and stuff like that (and when you have the good things, like SE x1.5 and above)

 

Quote

Remember the Creawand? Beast and CAST exclusive. Are you implying that was an accident on SEGA's part?

You know the purpose of it, right ? It's for support techs, so especially has GT/WT. Otherwise, the wand sux and doesn't have any particular properties.

edit : http://psupedia.info/Creawand.html (tech 70... other 9* wands are around 400/450+ iirc)

Edited by Aelphasy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Also, Clementine sometimes goes against PSU game logic. Like by eliminating gender stat differences.

I was among the people who wanted this suppression, because it unnecessarily limits the choice. A gender should never determine stats. It's very different than the race question.

Well, Sega thought a gender should determine stats. And Sega also didn't think we should have access to all the weapons Acrogunner has in one type. So Clementine does sometimes go against the design of the game.

 

Quote

Also, by in-game recommendation, I assume you mean racial stat bonuses for classes. There's no racial stat bonus (implying a racial recommendation) for Masterforce, and if you still took the position that there was an implied master class racial recommendation, a CAST for example has to level Force to 3 & Guntecher to 10 to become a Gunmaster.

Guntecher is just a step to reach Gunmaster, is doesn't means that cast deserve some balance by having more TP. Also, the point of Guntecher is being a support techers with ranged playstyle (especially bows and crossbows) so again, you don't need TP for that. In a very situationnal way, offensive techs can be useful as GT, but only for cc and stuff like that (and when you have the good things, like SE x1.5 and above)

Quote

Remember the Creawand? Beast and CAST exclusive. Are you implying that was an accident on SEGA's part?

You know the purpose of it, right ? It's for support techs, so especially has GT/WT. Otherwise, the wand sux and doesn't have any particular properties.

edit : http://psupedia.info/Creawand.html (tech 70... other 9* wands are around 400/450+ iirc)

In your last post before this one, you suggested it was not recommended to be techer with a beast, without specifying "offensive techer". No one else had made that suggestion up to that point, and I wasn't going to argue that Beast or CAST techers don't presently lean toward support.

But Clementine has gone against the design of the game before like I mentioned above. If you can support a gender stat change that always affects all players, I can support an optional line shield that no one is forced to equip.

The people bringing up game balance, I think you make the mistake of assuming that I'm only content with a line shield that would make offensive CAST/Beast techers on par with newman techers. If it was introduced as a B-rank line shield with a 100 def requirement and a lower TP boost, I would probably still use it. I don't only play with the best equipment.

Another mistake is assuming that I would only be content with this being added now (while the servers are down?), and not later in development when they've completed more urgent tasks. This seems like a wild assumption.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...