Item Drops

You can talk about anything Clementine related just here.

Would you like Clementine to have community defined drops?

[YES!] And I think I can help!
38
58%
[YES!] But I won't be able to help.
24
37%
[NO!] 1:1 or nothing! Don't touch anything! Omgosh boringpsuisbestpsu!
3
5%
 
Total votes: 65

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Noblewine
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Noblewine » Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:05 pm

Will the GBR be used as a way to increase the rate of rares or materials to drop?

Dovahqveen wrote:Hello friends!!!
I'm not as much of a veteran player in games like PSO or even PSO2, but I've definitely got to develop a perspective on PSU's play style. Although I completely cherish all of my memories of the game, most of those memories were created outside of the mission areas. In general, I found lots of the missions to be lackluster, and made me question why they were in the game at all. Most are based directly off of events from the storyline, but not a lot of people are going to appreciate just that. It's not that hunting around and killing enemies is boring, but in hindsight, no one wanted to run missions like Mad Beasts, Unsafe Passage, and numerous amounts of Moatoob missions, which all seemed to be the same anyways.

I turned to prefer the social aspect of the game because...
1.) Each time I wanted to actually look for items to farm... they were always there for me in the same mission (((not White Beast or anything))).
2.) I longed for event missions- event missions, unlike the regular ones, would give great drops, great xp, interesting and sometimes new and exclusive enemies that gave, hey, NEW AND EXCLUSIVE DROPS, and lots of the missions looked pretty and had great soundtracks!!
3.) I was sick and tired of receiving Cladorian and Par Wood as a reward for spending 20 minutes of my life killing Svaltuses alone because no one else wanted to.
4.) Boards just generally looked unattractive to me because of how much effort you could put in and still fail miserably. What was worse was if it was a rare board that can only be dropped, it was gone forever after you created (or failed to create) your item, which was most likely only once.
5.) Grinding for my bot was fun... for my first 40 levels. After she evolved into the PM stage, it excited me that I could finally take my baby out for walks! 5 missions later, I seized to find reason to take her out anymore. She just miserably sat in my room all day, catering to customers in my shop. I wanted better for her!

I'm sure lots of people would agree with me on the boards situation. The success rate, sometimes just being above 50%, would make me lose hope in making the weapon. I would always much rather prefer simply stepping behind my counter, looking up a decent 5/10 version of it with a good attribute percentage, and spending astronomical amounts of meseta than to go out looking for items that I knew I wouldn't be able to find OR items that are all jumbled into the same mission. Moreover, what if the board was an event exclusive item, say for example. If it breaks, I would never be able to have the chance to make whatever item the board contained again. Just thinking about that is frustrating. All of the items you found for it are GONE, obliterated, and your precious board and item are thrown into subspace as well. IT WAS A LOSE-LOSE SITUATION MAN.

In terms of bots and PMs, I don't remember clearly if taking them out had some effect on them, but why not make them even more useful, and implement an item tracking system on them? Not only would they help fight for you, but instead of saying pointless things like "These creatures are aesthetically charming!" and "Oh-ho ho!" They can identify enemies and areas, and tell the player if they can contain items included in boards that they have stored inside them. This is an otherworldly suggestion, but if that existed, I would be supremely interested in board synthesis.

To sum it up, I think items should be better distributed between missions. Let's relieve players of their constant running of White Beast. Let's find ways to help obtain exclusive items casually, and not make certain exchange missions useless to new players who didn't have a chance to play event missions. It might take work, but the final product would be more... appreciable. In my opinion, at least I would want to run around to each planet finding certain items and weapons. It shouldn't have to be a single item for each run, but at least give the shittier missions a purpose.

PS: Bruh imagine these tiny ass bots with JP weapons


Event missions were fun and challenge. The downside was it made rares and materials too accessible to players; Which caused inflation in PSU economy. Lightning Event and Shred the Darkness did do something cool so I want to pitch this idea: how about using photons or collectibles like photon drops (and crystals) as currency to run these kind of maps. The idea might add replay value to neglected event maps so make people play them longer. What do you think dovahqueen?

I just thought of this but the missions you can play on the 3rd floor. What made them so much fun that gave gamers the incentive to replay those maps? Maybe that can applied to the regular missions.

This just came to mind: is it possible for pa frags to have another use aside from trading for physical discs to learn Photon artes (strike, bullet or technics)?
PSU CLEMENTINE!
Noble_wine lv 50 C: M: HU 10 FF lv 8
Rouge lv 56 B: F: HU lv 10 FF lv 5

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Myroplexity
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Myroplexity » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:21 pm

Oh hell yeah lets do this I'm on board with it!

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Dovahqveen
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Dovahqveen » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:27 am

Event missions were fun and challenge. The downside was it made rares and materials too accessible to players; Which caused inflation in PSU economy. Lightning Event and Shred the Darkness did do something cool so I want to pitch this idea: how about using photons or collectibles like photon drops (and crystals) as currency to run these kind of maps. The idea might add replay value to neglected event maps so make people play them longer. What do you think dovahqueen?

I just thought of this but the missions you can play on the 3rd floor. What made them so much fun that gave gamers the incentive to replay those maps? Maybe that can applied to the regular missions.


Event missions were basically like the cover up for all of the regular missions lol. They had crazy drop rates and were irresistible to play.
I remember there being this one event mission that was in Parum's Guardians branch. People (me) could just go in and run over and over for Zon-drops to obtain items from Thunderfest Deals in Moatoob after the Winterfest Carnival event. Without this particular mission, there would be no other way to obtain Zon-drops, and they would just be lying around uselessly like Megi-drops and Ray-drops. If all of these photon drops could be obtainable somewhere outside of the event mission as well, I wouldn't be opposed to this idea.

There were also several reasons why 3rd floor missions were deemed "replayable". Lots imbued a challenge into the game; I remember one timed mission that only allowed you to use C-rank weapons or dropped your level down to 50 temporarily to fight super strong monsters as you purified the fire SEED. It was something of the sort, but I remember it being incredibly intense. I couldn't handle it, but I'd imagine that because it was such a challenge, the drops in there must have been unreal. To add onto that, players would get this currency called AEXP (advanced experience points) for completing said missions. This could be traded in for permanent base power-ups for your class type & different skills. Check that here --> http://psupedia.info/GAS.html really sick read; I forgot PSU had this. You could also obtain DP (delivery points) for trading in items and reaching certain milestones in the game. They could be used to get armor, weapons, and materials. It was literal incentive reinforcement at its finest.

Aspects like that were what kept the game alive for the freaking aristocrats of the community, what with their 4 Lv 180 characters and storages filled with gold bars. Thankfully, those missions persisted. But like... if there's going to be a mission that leaves gamers with a useless currency, that sucks. If I were a newbie that just joined in after a really good event ended, I'd be pissed. I'd have to play the game knowing I missed the opportunity to get good items, and I'll never get the chance to again. WE MUST BRING BACK EVENT MISSIONS AND MAKE THEM A FIXED THING. Whether daily, weekly, annually idfc promise me I'll have another chance to undo the did ;A;

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Colette
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Colette » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:54 am

Yeah for what it lacked in support PSU had a lot of gameplay options through turn in quests, it was quite neat.

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Noblewine
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Noblewine » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:00 am

The problem in this issue is RNG. Luck played a huge role in Phantasy Star Universe

Co-op missions such as HSM, Bruces Dungeon, Innocent Girl and Security Breach were pretty fun and gave me incentive to run them because of how terrible I was at the game. I mean my gear was crap so my dps was horrible (regardless of my photon artes were at max level). Co op missions like that is what made the game fun for me atleast. The open missions I liked were rarely ran like Sleeping warriors or Duel Sential. I know people on psp2/pc server liked to run Duel in the Ruins for the Chao spawns during holiday events. I think Cave of Ice also had a good/moderate chance for chao as well. Dunno. Anyone know if this is true? I suppose the reason I liked Co-op missions was the thrill of conquoring them or speed running.

The trade in missions are good. You felt like you made progress after trading something. I felt a little spoonfed but invested because of the time you spent working for your stuff. The game needs more options whether its currency or collectibles, to stimulate the economy. It needs to go somewhere instead of causing inflation.

Here's another suggestion: Is it possible to alter spawn patterns and objects in open missions to make it feel less repetitive? PSO did this when you did Side quest like Fake in yellow or Greedy Landlord (forgot the name). You help a greedy HUmar named Renton who lost three pods in Forest 1. His son ask you to bring him back to Pioneer 2.

I'm happy someone would hear me out on a suggestion so thanks.
PSU CLEMENTINE!
Noble_wine lv 50 C: M: HU 10 FF lv 8
Rouge lv 56 B: F: HU lv 10 FF lv 5

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Marmalade
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Marmalade » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:55 pm

Noblewine wrote:Here's another suggestion: Is it possible to alter spawn patterns and objects in open missions to make it feel less repetitive?

Uh, I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure?
Anyway, more spawn sets are entirely possible, but that's going to take some time. We actually need to do this to reconstruct all the missing mission files anyway, and Tony is already working toward that goal. We're likely to reconstruct those missions before really adding to or modifying existing ones, if ever. We could also just make new missions, theoretically!

Noblewine wrote:Will the GBR be used as a way to increase the rate of rares or materials to drop?

Don't expect the GBR to come back, at least not any time soon. I haven't looked massively into it but I'm pretty sure it's not something I want to try to replicate until more things are finished at least.

Dovahqveen wrote:WE MUST BRING BACK EVENT MISSIONS AND MAKE THEM A FIXED THING. Whether daily, weekly, annually idfc promise me I'll have another chance to undo the did ;A;

Are you talking about... like, MAG and FireBreak? or what? Or just rare missions like Phantom Fissure?
Events like MAG and FireBreak aren't likely to be coming back, just because I simply don't have them.
Any events like this are going to have to be purely built by us.
Rare missions on the other hand are definitely going to be reworked anyway; The way Sega did it was just way too foolish for me (Seriously, cloning the same mission into every counter? stop. please.) and they're likely to be moved into a static counter, like, the guardians branch :D
I can just as easily make rare missions a daily event thing, or I can keep them as a rare find thing.

Noblewine wrote:The trade in missions are good. You felt like you made progress after trading something.

I don't know if trading or item exchange missions will ever work!!!! c: keep that in mind!


Lets talk about boards real quick. I'd initially dumped just under 400 boards but unfortunately there isn't any recipe to them so they'll all need to be fixed regardless. Because that's also going to have to happen I suggest that we just redo boards from the ground and build them around items we care about crafting (Assuming PM's and such ever work).
Personally I wouldn't mind seeing more legitimate weapon drops instead of their boards, like PSO. I find it more satisfying to find the weapon itself than to grind hardcore just to maybe get it. Of course, this isn't to say that we should get rid of boards completely, but my idea is to allow for dropped weapons to be sub par, and the crafted versions to be a little more refined.

The problem arises when we consider potentially 1600~ weapons alone, and then another howevermany boards to go with them. It's a lot of items to distribute! But we can worry about boards and weapons at a later step.

Depending on the people helping, you can either be split into 2 teams of Enemies and Areas, or you can all work on the same thing,
but you're definitely going to have to communicate with each other and you're going to need to have some knowledge on areas, enemies, drops, and a little math.

Whatever you decide to do first, I'm likely to cut out the consumables from drops because of the sheer number of repeating items (Why define Monomates in every mission, right?), and just make them a global drop based on party level. This is going to make the drop table a little cleaner anyway, so you won't have to worry about any consumable items.

Soon I'll have the server spit out all the items we have so that you can use that to ID items properly.

Those of you who are willing to help, if you have a discord ID then please PM me or tell me here.
We're likely to have a channel where you can better discuss what to drop and where.


Glad to see so much support for this! Thanks guys!
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Thank you, Seras! c:


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Nyxxi
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Nyxxi » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:25 pm

I have a question and idk if its been asked already, but will the player shops be implemented? I remember playing when it was on Xbox 360 and I loved being a shop owner. I would love to see them come back.
Nyxxi: Master Force
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Noblewine
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Noblewine » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:54 pm

Marmalade wrote:
Noblewine wrote:Here's another suggestion: Is it possible to alter spawn patterns and objects in open missions to make it feel less repetitive?

Uh, I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure?
Anyway, more spawn sets are entirely possible, but that's going to take some time. We actually need to do this to reconstruct all the missing mission files anyway, and Tony is already working toward that goal. We're likely to reconstruct those missions before really adding to or modifying existing ones, if ever. We could also just make new missions, theoretically!


I see. Thanks marma. Please save our universe! 0/

Nyxxi wrote:I have a question and idk if its been asked already, but will the player shops be implemented? I remember playing when it was on Xbox 360 and I loved being a shop owner. I would love to see them come back.


Ingame I heard it possible. It might just take some time before they re-add it.
PSU CLEMENTINE!
Noble_wine lv 50 C: M: HU 10 FF lv 8
Rouge lv 56 B: F: HU lv 10 FF lv 5

Discord: Noble_wine#8594

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Gnome
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Gnome » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:45 am

Nyxxi wrote:I have a question and idk if its been asked already, but will the player shops be implemented? I remember playing when it was on Xbox 360 and I loved being a shop owner. I would love to see them come back.


While I can't say for certain, due to us not really having figured out rooms yet, I'm sure we'd love to have this feature and I don't personally think it'd be tooooo hard to do, only time will tell :)
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Sakarisei
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Sakarisei » Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:43 am

Well guys, in my case I can help you at the beginning of September, mainly because I'll have vacations of my job... until October.

About the drops, one of the things that I'd like to balance in terms of the drops is about making the drops of synthesis more useful than now. I mean, if anyone played PSU, synthesis is only useful at the beginning of the game for making crap gear with better element in terms of making melee weapons. In ranged and tech weapons, looting the weapon is much better than making it, mainly because the effects of looting the weapon and making it with synthesis are the same. Furthermore, since making weapons about 10* or more are ridiculously expensive, my suggestion for the drops are this:

-Allowing the players to loot the board versions of the weapons, but not looting the original weapon. I mean, the game should drop [B]Handgun, but not Handgun.
-The exception for that rule is for weapons with no board like the Siren Glass Hammer or basically any 13-15* JP weapon, although that drop should be very low for making synthesis boards more useful.

I'm sorry if this post is small, but when I've got more time, I'll input a better and a large post :)

Greetings.


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