Item Drops

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Would you like Clementine to have community defined drops?

[YES!] And I think I can help!
38
57%
[YES!] But I won't be able to help.
26
39%
[NO!] 1:1 or nothing! Don't touch anything! Omgosh boringpsuisbestpsu!
3
4%
 
Total votes: 67

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Marmalade
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Item Drops

Postby Marmalade » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:51 am

So, information about item drops, either from boxes, enemies, or just area drops, is pretty spotty and convoluted. We're essentially
going to be piecing things together from whatever information we can find anyway so I figured now is a better time than any to ask!

I want to discuss the possibility of working with the community to make our own drop charts. Charts that don't suck and will give more incentive to hunt or play more missions, as was suggested in a previous thread.

The only real information we have is from offline AOTI, and that only includes Box drops which leave a lot to be desired, including any S3 and future S4 drops. There is also moderate Area Drops information from PSUPedia (There are no drop rates or specific box information here).


Area Drops are going to be the biggest job here, they will end up being mission specific and define multiple items within a number of enemy level ranges. I.E Enemies between levels 45-90 can spawn a handful of items.
Area Drops will spawn from Enemies and Boxes if they fail to spawn any of their own unique items, and will make up the majority of items that will spawn (Consumables, materials, etc)

Box Drops will be the rarer bunch of items and will default to an Area Drop if it fails to spawn anything from its own inventory.
Boxes aren't going to be very flexible unless we go over all the boxes ever and redefine them (There's like 60,000+, so, no), so those will need a bit of strategic work. There are roughly 170 item lists per mission difficulty and S3 is missing entirely. Any number of boxes in the game can point into any one of these 170 item lists, meaning that the rare item you put into Unsafe Passage S2 will also find its way into other missions whose boxes use that item list. So I'm thinking Box Items should revolve around materials, standard weapons, and other such items.

Enemy drops can be changed relatively easy if wanted, and could even be made to drop more specific rares if you all would like that.
Enemies are on the same level as area drops and can be made to drop just about anything. If they fail to spawn any items from their own inventories then it will default to the Area Drop list which applies to that enemies level range.

In short, drops are going to be redone regardless, and it isn't likely to find its way back to being 1:1 to the official server, so we might as well seize the opportunity to put a few things right and make the game increasingly fun. It isn't something that we'd want to (re)do later on, and we can also populate the Wiki at the same time with this information.

If you're interested then please let me know, and If you're able to help with defining drops in missions then that's great! I could really use that help. If there is enough interest then I will start preparing methods for people to help.

If you have any questions or suggestions then feel free to discuss it here.
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Noblewine
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Noblewine » Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:09 am

I saw the thread and wanted to post. Reread things to avoid confusion or derail the topic. Anways, I like what I see so far Marma. Do you plan to keep it like psu 1:1 or later add drop rates changes based on the job type your currently?

Ignore what I said about psp1 and psp2 drop rate system. It spoon fed players.

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Killroy909
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Killroy909 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:43 am

Yea I can help with this. Im glad we have reach the stage to work item drops.

If we don't know the drop rate % for the area drops do we leave it blank?
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Colette
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Colette » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:18 am

Assuming suggestions are open to non testers(i.e. like me) and assuming we're talking about boards, materials, and the rares themselves, I think we should consider structuring around peoples play preferences to expand our potential audience and NOT alienate any players.

One of the major things people despised about PSU that made them not play is boards, and grinding for materials, and grinding to raise your PM, and then failing and having to grind more and more. I think personally we should have a drop system structured in a way that incentivizes both types/mentality's of play (i.e. there are people wanting to grind for boards, materials, and raising their partner machine, and people who just want to hunt rare drops and actually play the game PSO style).

Example: iirc psycho wand had a board drop that was heavily hunted, it was really rare and annoying to get plus you had to hunt diads and other crap just to craft it. You can assign all those drops accordingly, to that area and to those enemies that they need to be to satisfy the vanilla player's wants to grind it out and hunt all required pieces to make the item. In another quest and set of enemies for players who want to hunt the wand you could have the wand itself at a set drop rate PSO style, but maybe at a harder rate. This keeps both mindsets happy as they'll have no crossover to ruin their hunt (like the board hunter just mindlessly findin the wand and it ruining their incentive to play longer, just by example), and everyone gets what they want.

Board grinding could also be incentivized by making the manufactured version from your PM have a higher chance to have a element on w/e item you're making than a regular drop (idr anything of how drops/elemental chances worked tbh its been too long).

This accomplishes a couple things:
1: gets rid of crossover item drops (i.e. getting the same item from multiple enemies and areas)
2: incentivizes play in more areas/missions so people get a wider feel for the game
3: gives players multiple options for item hunting, and options are always welcome in this community I would think.
4: Fills out the drop chart more diversely giving a deeper gameplay experience than finding the same spear from 10 different enemies in 5 different quests across each of the planets.

Downsides:
Possible extra work to separate drops per enemy/area (idk how hard this would be on you guys :\)
Possible balancing issues that I cannot see myself but might need to be pointed out, I'm not perfect after all xd

in b4 wasting my time and misunderstood the OP.

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Gnome
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Gnome » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:51 am

Suggestions are of course open to everyone, its a community decision!

We're already considering re-doing boards ourselves, not being the same as original I guess? I imagine this would be for another topic entirely, possibly discussing whether or not to stray away from PSU's awful grinding simulator 3.0.

We're already wanting to be balancing drops in a way that spreads everyone out, i.e. not having everyone run one mission forever *cough* White Beast *cough* and probably look into other ways of getting everyone together in those areas, so you don't have to solo the grind for that precious item you so desperately want (again, probably another topic of discussion) We're wanting to do alot of balancing to the game as a whole, but this will mostly be driven by community input I imagine (because we don't want to trash the game, or make it a whole too much different from the original I guess and drive away players)

Enemy drops are already separately made into a list for level ranges, this is per enemy (not per area, thats where area drops come in) and this isn't too much work, the hard work comes in when we start trying to balance them out without breaking it in multiple other areas. Its something I imagine we'll be experimenting with for a long time. Area drops will be per mission as well (no doubt) so the work is already there, I imagine for the time being we'll be sticking with the original, until this thread shines light on some wonderful people that would like to help out with mindlessly filling out area drops and giving input as a whole (Its not difficult! Sign yourself up and ill give you a hug, and maybe a gold star...)

As the grand master, Marmaduke already stated, we're wanting to re-vamp the whole drop system and drop charts with the community's input. <3
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Colette
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Colette » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:56 am

Lol the quick reply is appreciated, and that sounds great to me.

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Gnome
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Gnome » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:57 am

Colette wrote:Lol the quick reply is appreciated, and that sounds great to me.


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Shadowth117
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Shadowth117 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:20 pm

I think it would be important to set some standards for drop rates and figure out the deal with boards etc. early so that we don't have people making useless listings.

At its core, I think PSU was always a game that wanted materials to be important. Even in Jp, we had reason to stock up on these things for exchanges. Boards are one good use for these as are the exchange counters. Ideally, I think we'd have both uses.

With that said, unlike the original game, I think that boards should drop earlier then regular variants of items so that there's reasons to use them (ie you're not past the point you'd use one when you find it). The old system for boards really only worked when they were for endgame items. Otherwise, may as well scavenge from missions.

One way or another, I'd be very happy to help with this when you're taking people!

Calamity
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Calamity » Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:08 pm

This is branching off my question in the question thread , but would figuring out the drops in games like psp2i help out at all ?

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Dovahqveen
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Re: Item Drops

Postby Dovahqveen » Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:29 pm

Hello friends!!!
I'm not as much of a veteran player in games like PSO or even PSO2, but I've definitely got to develop a perspective on PSU's play style. Although I completely cherish all of my memories of the game, most of those memories were created outside of the mission areas. In general, I found lots of the missions to be lackluster, and made me question why they were in the game at all. Most are based directly off of events from the storyline, but not a lot of people are going to appreciate just that. It's not that hunting around and killing enemies is boring, but in hindsight, no one wanted to run missions like Mad Beasts, Unsafe Passage, and numerous amounts of Moatoob missions, which all seemed to be the same anyways.

I turned to prefer the social aspect of the game because...
1.) Each time I wanted to actually look for items to farm... they were always there for me in the same mission (((not White Beast or anything))).
2.) I longed for event missions- event missions, unlike the regular ones, would give great drops, great xp, interesting and sometimes new and exclusive enemies that gave, hey, NEW AND EXCLUSIVE DROPS, and lots of the missions looked pretty and had great soundtracks!!
3.) I was sick and tired of receiving Cladorian and Par Wood as a reward for spending 20 minutes of my life killing Svaltuses alone because no one else wanted to.
4.) Boards just generally looked unattractive to me because of how much effort you could put in and still fail miserably. What was worse was if it was a rare board that can only be dropped, it was gone forever after you created (or failed to create) your item, which was most likely only once.
5.) Grinding for my bot was fun... for my first 40 levels. After she evolved into the PM stage, it excited me that I could finally take my baby out for walks! 5 missions later, I seized to find reason to take her out anymore. She just miserably sat in my room all day, catering to customers in my shop. I wanted better for her!

I'm sure lots of people would agree with me on the boards situation. The success rate, sometimes just being above 50%, would make me lose hope in making the weapon. I would always much rather prefer simply stepping behind my counter, looking up a decent 5/10 version of it with a good attribute percentage, and spending astronomical amounts of meseta than to go out looking for items that I knew I wouldn't be able to find OR items that are all jumbled into the same mission. Moreover, what if the board was an event exclusive item, say for example. If it breaks, I would never be able to have the chance to make whatever item the board contained again. Just thinking about that is frustrating. All of the items you found for it are GONE, obliterated, and your precious board and item are thrown into subspace as well. IT WAS A LOSE-LOSE SITUATION MAN.

In terms of bots and PMs, I don't remember clearly if taking them out had some effect on them, but why not make them even more useful, and implement an item tracking system on them? Not only would they help fight for you, but instead of saying pointless things like "These creatures are aesthetically charming!" and "Oh-ho ho!" They can identify enemies and areas, and tell the player if they can contain items included in boards that they have stored inside them. This is an otherworldly suggestion, but if that existed, I would be supremely interested in board synthesis.

To sum it up, I think items should be better distributed between missions. Let's relieve players of their constant running of White Beast. Let's find ways to help obtain exclusive items casually, and not make certain exchange missions useless to new players who didn't have a chance to play event missions. It might take work, but the final product would be more... appreciable. In my opinion, at least I would want to run around to each planet finding certain items and weapons. It shouldn't have to be a single item for each run, but at least give the shittier missions a purpose.

PS: Bruh imagine these tiny ass bots with JP weapons


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