Race Change Discussion

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Seority
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Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby Seority » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:56 pm

Midori Oku wrote:Edit: As for Humans not being used on JP, that is about as far from the truth that you can get. If I'm not mistaken they were actually the 2nd most used race. There was a website that had the percentages of the races and genders used before JP PSU closed, but I can't find it.


Ah, I must've heard incorrectly then. My appologies.
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"What is life, but not something to be treasured?"

Miyoko
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Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby Miyoko » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:02 am

Midori Oku wrote:At this point there is really no point in changing the races since we have Japanese content. Humans and Newmans will have specials, and Nanoblasts will be updated to what they were before JP PSU closed.

Edit: As for Humans not being used on JP, that is about as far from the truth that you can get. If I'm not mistaken they were actually the 2nd most used race. There was a website that had the percentages of the races and genders used before JP PSU closed, but I can't find it.


I'm happy to hear this. We shouldn't be sticking our fingers in the game that much. The designers of the game spent a lot more time working on the game than we did, so they know it a lot better than we do (although community can offer insight and feedback!). As I mentioned in another thread, we all like to think we're game designers, and that we know a lot, but we don't. If I asked "Why does Catacombs have the best level design in Dark Souls?", most people would think I'm insane. Heck, I don't even think most "gamers" could explain why Mega Man X has such good level design.

That all being said, I REALLY need to look into what all exactly they DID have at the end of PSU's life cycle in Japan. It's been so long, I can't remember. Part of me feels like they really nailed it and got things down well, but another part of me wonders if they just kept painting coats of paint over old coats and had some weird, pasty, brown mess.

tghn
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Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby tghn » Sat May 20, 2017 9:07 pm

I like the race differences it makes psu unique. I understand why people want to change it, but I feel the system as it is adds more verity to the community and it makes it easier to know who has what play style. I don't want this game to lose part of what makes it unique. that's my take on it at least.

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Noblewine
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Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby Noblewine » Sun May 21, 2017 6:16 pm

Pretty cool to see Human were played regardless of their stats. I had a human though debating on whether to make a cast because of ATP/ACC
"I hate 2016 and this current year..." -Noblewine


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ZER0 DX
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Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby ZER0 DX » Thu May 25, 2017 5:57 am

As a fellow Human who experienced the "Everybody gets a SUV... except for those filthy Beasts" good life on JP, this was always satisfying.
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So was this.
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...And I guess Beasts weren't all that bad, the invincibility one solved the shooting pew pew lasers of instant death problem we faced in a late event mission.
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Nerva
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Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby Nerva » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:28 pm

If I might share my 2 meseta here...

The thing with racial difference is that, ultimately, policy on them will come down to what philosophy the devs here support.

Proponents of strong racial differences will cite that having strong racial differences makes it possible to tailor your race choice to your class choice and preferred playstyle, effectively getting a bonus for choosing the race whose stat-line favors the class and playstyle you prefer. It preserves race identity as well; Newmans, for instance, are strongly attuned to technique usage, and this is part of their lore and design. CASTs, on the other hand, enjoy great durability and accuracy, but have little talent with techniques as their compensating factor.

Proponents of weak or nonexistent racial differences point out that any character can technically access any class, but what's the point if there's classes they're going to be outright bad at due to racial choice? What if you enjoy the unique aesthetics of a given race, but they're utterly unsuited to a class and playstyle that you enjoy? Strong racial differences hinder character customization and weaken one's ability to play the character you want to play.

One thing to consider is elitism, and strong or weak racial differences might affect and be affected by it. In a strong racial differences environment, choosing the 'wrong' race for a given class is deliberately handicapping yourself. You physically cannot, in any way, make up for your statistical inferiority. Your potential for your class is outright lower than the potential for someone whose race matches their class. As a result, it's going to be harder for you to perform well in high-pressure situations. There are people who demand that their allies play optimally, and if you are playing a class unsuited to your race, you're physically incapable of playing optimally without switching; it's this sort of elitism that gets problematic. Sadly, there's not a lot that can be done about the behavior itself - having racial differences at all would encourage it.

There's two possible solutions to this, and I'm not going to make assumptions about how feasible they are; that's for the devs to determine. One is to give non-optimal race/class combinations some kind of unique ability that would let them fill a unique niche in party composition. To use an example from another game, RF online gave Accretia Specialists (who have no access to the special Force skills that Cora specialists have, as well as no access to the MAU mechs that Bellato specialists have) the ability to resurrect and buff allies, abilities that were unique to them among Accretians. This made them highly desirable to have around, despite their abject weakness.

The other is to weaken the racial divisions. If the difference between most optimum and least optimum race choice is negligible, to the point where it's arguable that the race's other bonuses make up for the lack of optimum primary stats, then there's less likely to be toxic elitism. An example is PSO2 - the difference between a level-capped F.Newman Force/Techer's T-ATK and a M.CAST Force/Techer's T-ATK is less than 100 points, in a game where T-ATK in the 3.5k to 4k+ is considered typical for the endgame. Racial differences matter early, but as soon as one is in 13-15* rarity gear, the differences are so slight as to be beneath notice.

Personally, I lean towards weak racial distinctions. In a game that allows one character to play numerous classes, it seems self-defeating to seriously punish them for taking advantage of that. In particular, I find it punishing for newbies in particular, as racial distinctions are most pronounced in the early game and it discourages newbies from trying out numerous classes to see which they most enjoy.

That said, I do believe races should retain non-statistical differences - things like SUV weapons and Nanoblasts. I also believe that Humans and Newmans should gain access to a similar 'super attack' capability, unique to them. I'm personally happiest in an environment where races are visually and mechanically distinct, yet roughly equal, or at least openly competitive with one another, in any role they should choose to pursue.


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