Race Change Discussion

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Seority
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Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby Seority » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:17 am

Jovie wrote:A statistical difference between races invites elitism in the community.

"Elitism" (which I don't see as a negative word but some do) is just favored opinions. If you are playing the race/class you want because it's fun, those people's opinions shouldn't matter to you.

Jovie wrote:So what do you guys like about racial stat differentiation? Why should it be kept in?

I believe it's customary to the Phantasy Star genre for those stats to be different. "Robots" using "spiritual magic" shouldn't be better at using that power than a race that devotes their livelihood to it (Newmans). Just makes sense. I'm ok with with canceling out the stat difference as well, but as I stated before, things like SUV/blast badges will have to be worked on to complete the balance.

Aside from aesthetics, there is no real way to keep "differences" in the races while also remaining equally balanced. Making a race run faster, from your example, would greatly alter the efficiency of said race. Stats are just numbers and altering speed is just another stat. (Why would Newmans be able to run faster anyway?)

I'm not trying to shoot down your idea entirely. Again, I agree that the percentage different of certain stats between the races is quite drastic and shortening that gap would be a good idea.
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Midori Oku
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Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby Midori Oku » Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:35 am

I don't mind reworking the base TP for Beasts/Casts (to give them a slight buff), or giving small class boosts to them as well. However, I'm not going to rework all of that stats for a system that already worked really well for the most part. Getting rid of the gender gaps was enough in my opinion.

When I get around to it, I'll post the level 180 base stats with the boosted TP for Beasts/Casts.

Ricewind
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Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby Ricewind » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:36 am

Midori Oku wrote:I don't mind reworking the base TP for Beasts/Casts (to give them a slight buff), or giving small class boosts to them as well. However, I'm not going to rework all of that stats for a system that already worked really well for the most part. Getting rid of the gender gaps was enough in my opinion.

When I get around to it, I'll post the level 180 base stats with the boosted TP for Beasts/Casts.


As long as humans stay superior in hybrid classes/roles. Not that I'm a big human fan, but elevating the use of a cast or beast above that of a human renders a human useless.
Think AT/GT/WT.

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Blade Takehiko
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Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby Blade Takehiko » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:35 am

Ricewind wrote:
Midori Oku wrote:I don't mind reworking the base TP for Beasts/Casts (to give them a slight buff), or giving small class boosts to them as well. However, I'm not going to rework all of that stats for a system that already worked really well for the most part. Getting rid of the gender gaps was enough in my opinion.

When I get around to it, I'll post the level 180 base stats with the boosted TP for Beasts/Casts.


As long as humans stay superior in hybrid classes/roles. Not that I'm a big human fan, but elevating the use of a cast or beast above that of a human renders a human useless.
Think AT/GT/WT.

Agreed, I also believe Newmans should be the second best hybrid build, being the closest to resemble humans, like HUnewearl being both good at attack and techs, as stated, Newmans do have the second best accuracy.
but I feel beasts should have the strongest ATP regardless of the fighter class, and so far there aren't many classes that have a boost for casts and beasts. Humans, however, still need to be much better at hybrids than main focus classes like the Master/ forte series. Though I still think they should get a "slight" boost in those. IMO, The TP difference should be at a minimum a 100 TP diff between races... not 700 or 500

Enemies being too easy could be solved with more resistances, more HP knockback resists, mental/defense boosts.
I always figured at high levels that enemies would have more of those balances towards endgame.
I'm not particularly for the whole S5~8 thing, but i do want to see atleast a completion of S4 and possibly S5 at a maximum.
One thing to note, What made the game extremely easy is the use of high level gear at such an early level. Why not make that based on level?
IMO beasts should have a bonus for Fighgunner, Wartecher, Arcofighter, and Fighmaster
Casts should have a bonus for Fighgunner, Guntecher, Protranser, and Gunmaster.
Newmans should have a slight bonus for Guntecher and Wartecher, The only issue I see with this is being ridiculously strong in TP in those classes, because they're already at a 103% bonus, but i'd like to see them be more useful in guns and melee with those classes, along with a slight bonus in acrotecher/acrofighter and masterforce(I'm saying this with uneasiness. they're already excel like crazy in those types.)
Humans can have a slight bonus in classes that they don't already have but continue to have a larger bonus in hybrid classes
that they already have. imo, they should be near 2nd best at everything. but not to the point everyone would choose to be that type because of that reason and completely leave the other races in the dust.
The blade that once cut the wings of a devil.
Kento Twilight Beast lvl1 Fighgunner[Clementine]
Argus Kelgron Beast lvl1 Masterforce[Clementine]
Roland Beast lvl1 Acrofighter[Clementine]
None lvl???? Demigod[Unknown?]

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Midori Oku
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Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby Midori Oku » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:11 am

When you say there should only be a 100 TP difference, do you mean something like this?

Newman = 1778
Human = 1678
Beast = 1578
Cast = 1478

Or are you saying that the difference between Newman (highest TP) and Cast (lowest TP) should be no more than 100?

For example:

Newmman = 1778
Human = 1745
Beast = 1712
Cast = 1679

Edit: I personally would still want it to be a bigger gap than what is in the first example. I think Cast sitting in roughly the same spot as Female Human Masterforce (pre-supplemental) would be good enough. For example:

Newman = 1778
Human = 1603
Beast = 1428
Cast = 1253

When you add in the Masterforce TP modifier:

Newman = 3111 (Stays the same)
Human = 2805 (2745 with stats from the chart on the 1st page)
Beast = 2499 (2105 with stats from the chart on the 1st page)
Cast = 2192 (1827 with the stats from the chart on the 1st page)

I personally think this is reasonable.

Edit #2: I may be willing to close the gap just a little more, but not too much. I personally would just like to leave race base stats as is. Either way, a buff is a buff, take it or leave it.

Edit #3: I would also like to point out that Beasts (no matter the class) have the highest ATP of all races.

Edit #4: Here's an example of the stats even closer together.

Newman = 1778
Human = 1643
Beasts = 1508
Casts = 1373

With the Masterforce TP modifier added:

Newman = 3111
Human = 2875
Beasts = 2630
Casts = 2402

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Cuddly Doll
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Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby Cuddly Doll » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:23 am

I say leave 'em be. The closer together the races' stats are, the less useful humans become, even with their currently planned buffs. You want a diverse character that isn't terrible at whichever job you're in the mood for, you have humans.

Humans! GIT YOU ONE.
Characters ~ Psycho Seraph, Cuddly Doll
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Blade Takehiko
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Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby Blade Takehiko » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:19 pm

Midori Oku wrote:When you say there should only be a 100 TP difference, do you mean something like this?

Newman = 1778
Human = 1678
Beast = 1578
Cast = 1478

Yeah, this is what I mean, but of course the gap can be bigger than that of course. but keeping humans as they were and just deduct 100TP from beasts to casts. so beasts would still be around 1400 TP and casts would be around 1300 TP

Midori Oku wrote:Edit: I personally would still want it to be a bigger gap than what is in the first example. I think Cast sitting in roughly the same spot as Female Human Masterforce (pre-supplemental) would be good enough. For example:

Newman = 1778
Human = 1603
Beast = 1428
Cast = 1253

When you add in the Masterforce TP modifier:

Newman = 3111 (Stays the same)
Human = 2805 (2745 with stats from the chart on the 1st page)
Beast = 2499 (2105 with stats from the chart on the 1st page)
Cast = 2192 (1827 with the stats from the chart on the 1st page)

I personally think this is reasonable.

I agree, This is perfect imo. It's something closer, but not too extreme when it comes to the TP buff.
And it let's players choose to be a different race that plays different roles if they wanted.

Midori Oku wrote:Edit #2: I may be willing to close the gap just a little more, but not too much. I personally would just like to leave race base stats as is. Either way, a buff is a buff, take it or leave it.

Edit #3: I would also like to point out that Beasts (no matter the class) have the highest ATP of all races.

Edit #4: Here's an example of the stats even closer together.

Newman = 1778
Human = 1643
Beasts = 1508
Casts = 1373

With the Masterforce TP modifier added:

Newman = 3111
Human = 2875
Beasts = 2630
Casts = 2402

This works too, each race is deducted by 135 TP
but they probably don't need to be that close
As for beasts having they highest ATP, I just have an issue with missing a majority of my hits towards endgame. and the only unit piece to help with that is Red / Knight, But if Vijerina / Cronos gets implemented since it was never on either servers. then I guess I have nothing to worry about.
The blade that once cut the wings of a devil.
Kento Twilight Beast lvl1 Fighgunner[Clementine]
Argus Kelgron Beast lvl1 Masterforce[Clementine]
Roland Beast lvl1 Acrofighter[Clementine]
None lvl???? Demigod[Unknown?]

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Blade Takehiko
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Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby Blade Takehiko » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:05 pm

Cuddly Doll wrote:I say leave 'em be. The closer together the races' stats are, the less useful humans become, even with their currently planned buffs. You want a diverse character that isn't terrible at whichever job you're in the mood for, you have humans.

Humans! GIT YOU ONE.

Humans are still really good, if they get their human/newman SUV's they're even better, infact they're better than newmans with SUV's in terms of damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIh07QsnmeQ
The issue for me is mainly, the looks, I perfer a beast over a human anyday just because I can blast and have my ears.
:P Newmans too, gotta love those pointy ears.then you got your lovable easy bake ovens and toasters running around too,
I support Newman/Beast/Cast SUPREMACY! just for those reasons <3
The blade that once cut the wings of a devil.
Kento Twilight Beast lvl1 Fighgunner[Clementine]
Argus Kelgron Beast lvl1 Masterforce[Clementine]
Roland Beast lvl1 Acrofighter[Clementine]
None lvl???? Demigod[Unknown?]

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Masterforce
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Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby Masterforce » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:03 pm

Perhaps i'm the only person who thinks this way, but I find that race/gender difference a very important aspect of the game. I like how the races/genders are setup. I really like who has what, it makes allot of sense really and it plays into the storyline of the game itself. I'm sure its possible to change this, but I wouldn't want to.
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Midori Oku
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Re: Race Change Discussion

Postby Midori Oku » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:37 pm

Masterforce wrote:Perhaps i'm the only person who thinks this way, but I find that race/gender difference a very important aspect of the game. I like how the races/genders are setup. I really like who has what, it makes allot of sense really and it plays into the storyline of the game itself. I'm sure its possible to change this, but I wouldn't want to.


Well, gender gaps are already gone. That's not coming back.


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