Drop system

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WallStreetWalker
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Re: Drop system

Postby WallStreetWalker » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:11 am

I feel that adding a personalized DIII-esque loot system would not be a good idea - this is tantamount to adjusting drop rates to (rate)*(# of players).

Imagine that you are playing in a party of six of your friends who are sharing resources. Why would you ever set the loot distribution to be anything but personalized? That increases your party's drop rate by 6x - and functionally, it would be no different even if you adjusted the rate to be (rate)/(# of players), since the result would still be randomized.

In a non-cooperative party you arrive by a different means but the ultimate result is still the same. For each player in the party the drop rate is increased. Since there is still a random chance for an item to drop for any one player, the player who gets the item is still randomized, so nothing changes except that you get multiple chances to get a drop instead of just one.

From a pure statistics perspective, all you do by instituting a personal loot system is increasing the drop rate by a given amount, and even if you correct for that based on the number of players in a party, the end result is still exactly the same.

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Aelphasy
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Re: Drop system

Postby Aelphasy » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:51 am

The idea is to remove the frustration of seeing the coveted loot leave in the hands of someone else.

If they reform the loot system to make it similar to D3/PSO2 and many modern HnS/MMO, it wont be "the end result is still exactly the same." at all, since the personal loot causes each of the six players to have a chance of having the object he wants.

It is certainly not I who will question the mathematical aspect of things, being more literary than mathematician (plus not english and google translate seems to do weirdo translation lol), but I dont really get what you are saying.

Personal loot system = all players can drop the coveted item.
Actual loot system = one drop, randomly given to a party member. Which sux and seriously get old.

EDIT : ofc, the droprate must be modulated if you opt for the personal system; more there is ppl in the party, more you decrease droprate.
1) It avoid making the game easier.
2) It makes soloing not harder for those who want to farm a specific weaps without mates for hunt
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WallStreetWalker
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Re: Drop system

Postby WallStreetWalker » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:06 am

Look at it like this:

Normal Loot Drops (Set Random)

Rare Drop Chance: 1/100
Set Random Chance: 1/4
Player 1 Odds: 1/400 (100*4)
Player 2 Odds: 1/400 (100*4)
Player 3 Odds: 1/400 (100*4)
Player 4 Odds: 1/400 (100*4)

Personal Loot Drops (D-III Style)

Rare Drop Chance: 1/100
Player 1 Odds: 1/100
Player 2 Odds: 1/100
Player 3 Odds: 1/100
Player 4 Odds: 1/100
Cooperative Odds: 1/25 (100/4)

Personal Loot Drops (D-III Style, Adjusted)

Rare Drop Chance: 1/400 (100*4)
Player 1 Odds: 1/400 (100*4)
Player 2 Odds: 1/400 (100*4)
Player 3 Odds: 1/400 (100*4)
Player 4 Odds: 1/400 (100*4)

As you can see, Normal and Personal Adjusted rates are both always 1/400, while Personal Non-Adjusted is 1/100 - and 1/25 if the players are co-operating. I can understand the illusion of this system being more appealing, but it's work that the developers have to do that functionally changes nothing at best, and arbitrarily increases the drop rates at worst.

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Aelphasy
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Re: Drop system

Postby Aelphasy » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:42 am

I do not pretend to question the calculation that seems right.

But I really feel that a system at the D3 avoids solo parties. A simple comparison: PSO Ultima and PSO Ephinea. Ephinea has chosen to make a personal loot system, and people have a natural tendency to play much more together. Illusion, considering your calculation ? Probably.

But let me add a variable: time spent. A run will always be faster at 6 than alone, and then the loots come faster.
Until the end.

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Seority
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Re: Drop system

Postby Seority » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:39 am

When it came to loot, PSU back-in-the day, was heavily soloed. Unlike PSO, where every mission was a journey, PSU instances are much quicker and easier to accomplish (US/EU servers), so playing in a group was less effective than playing alone.

Most of us would like to avoid this possibility, and would rather encourage players to work together. Grouping needs to have advantages aside from "getting through missions faster."

If programing a way for personal loot drops is too much, then maybe boost it when people are grouped. Should the rates be generally lowered then to compensate? Perhaps. Should people stop soloing altogether? No. A happy balance is what we want to achieve.

For an example of one way to possibily do this, let's say drop rates so can be .5 per player (50% effectively.) Another person joins, now the drop rate is at 1 (100%.) Four more players join, and now the drop rate is 3 (300%.)

Is it really that devistaing to raise drop rates when people are playing together as a team? Also, party leaders should still be able to edit how drops are given (random, in order, or straight to), so they can decide what kind of groups to run.
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CTB
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Re: Drop system

Postby CTB » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:11 pm

Huh? All PSO enemies have a flinch off any attacks, nearly all enemies can be hit with a "cantdoshitcaptain" status effect instantly, and most can be stun locked off basic attacks. Few monsters have a large pool of HP to prevent a one combo kill and those that do can say hi to Demons.

And none of that can be interrupted by you or the server lagging.

Quests made hunts more or less the same in length compared to PSU. You do a specific one for a quick amount of x monster or TTF/RT for the boss drop.

I mean, I'm not opposed to a PSO2 loot system, but lets not pretend it's because solo was easier/harder...the only reason you hunted alone was when you friends weren't available. You didn't hunt with randoms on PSU unless you were prepared for grief, just like PSO, and that's all it was (well on PSU you can worry about people jacking up the time because they want to knock everything away lol)
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Miyoko
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Re: Drop system

Postby Miyoko » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:47 am

Seority wrote:When it came to loot, PSU back-in-the day, was heavily soloed. Unlike PSO, where every mission was a journey, PSU instances are much quicker and easier to accomplish (US/EU servers), so playing in a group was less effective than playing alone.

Most of us would like to avoid this possibility, and would rather encourage players to work together. Grouping needs to have advantages aside from "getting through missions faster."

If programing a way for personal loot drops is too much, then maybe boost it when people are grouped. Should the rates be generally lowered then to compensate? Perhaps. Should people stop soloing altogether? No. A happy balance is what we want to achieve.

For an example of one way to possibily do this, let's say drop rates so can be .5 per player (50% effectively.) Another person joins, now the drop rate is at 1 (100%.) Four more players join, and now the drop rate is 3 (300%.)

Is it really that devistaing to raise drop rates when people are playing together as a team? Also, party leaders should still be able to edit how drops are given (random, in order, or straight to), so they can decide what kind of groups to run.


I personally don't like playing in large groups because I find it too chaotic, and not very fun. Strategy largely goes out the window as a result. I don't want to be penalized because of my play preference.

I've never really had any issue hunting items and telling people, "Hey, I'm looking for <item> if it drops. Is that cool?" Nobody has ever had an issue with it. Usually they'd respond with "Sure, and if <different item drops> can I have it?" It all works out. Communication is key. Of course, this is just anecdotal evidence and should be taken with a grain of salt, but still. I am very curious to know to what extent drops could be modified.

Just keep in mind, what you view as "incentivizing", others might see as "punishing". For me personally, so long as it's not like PSP2 where drops were player specific AND could not be traded, I'm happy. Nothin' like getting force stuff on my ranger, while my force friend got nothing but guns. "Good" times.

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WallStreetWalker
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Re: Drop system

Postby WallStreetWalker » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:13 pm

I think the real issue here is that we are looking at drops from an MMORPG perspective, which PSU is not. It has MMO elements, sure - but at its heart it is more Diablo than WoW. Fiddling with the drop system is just trying to clumsily reconcile two disparate systems.

Instead of trying to force a square peg into a round hole why not focus on the things that PSU *does* have going for it already? I've advocated before for a few changes to the way crafting and grinding are done to adjust for the lower playerbase - and I feel that were those changes instituted you wouldn't have to modify the existing drop system at all, even down to the rates. Random drops would simply be 'icing on the cake' as it were, and not the main focus. Trying to force the hand anymore than that and you risk over-saturating the market with rare stuff, which then ceases to be rare.


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