Drop system

You can talk about anything Clementine related just here.
Sakarisei
Posts: 161
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:45 pm

Drop system

Postby Sakarisei » Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:14 am

Basically anyone know about the loot system of this game in Online mode. I would like to suggest a new drop system for avoiding the big ammount of solo parties in PSU. However, since I don't know about what drop system is prefered by people, I'll open this topic for allowing them posting some ideas about it here.

User avatar
Aelphasy
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:57 am

Re: Drop system

Postby Aelphasy » Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:50 pm

Sup Saru,

Indeed, a loot system that works like a Russian roulette is really bad in those kind of game. For sure, I will play solo when I hunt for something if it dont change.

The best thing to do is a loot system just like PSO 2 or Diablo 3, which is; your loot... well your loot. Guessing everyone know how it works, and its not "better" or "cool" its just logical to me, I really wonder why they doesnt do it like that on PSU.
Until the end.

shade
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Drop system

Postby shade » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:26 pm

If you set non rare drop on random (to split mesetas equitably), if you give rare drop to the finder and if you don't play with jerk, the PSU drop system is absolutely fine.
ぐぇぐぇ。ぼよよん。

Sakarisei
Posts: 161
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:45 pm

Re: Drop system

Postby Sakarisei » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:00 am

shade wrote:If you set non rare drop on random (to split mesetas equitably), if you give rare drop to the finder and if you don't play with jerk, the PSU drop system is absolutely fine.


Yeah, but not all players who joins Clementine to play PSU regardless of newbies or old players with the intention of playing once again will go with their friends. People can change when a long ammount of time happens, especially if they received a bad experience when looting things. And I can assure it because in PSOBB, for non-talking about old PSO, the first priority that you had when playing with the others, is watching about catching a rare, especially if that rare is one of your wanted list.

User avatar
Seority
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:26 am

Re: Drop system

Postby Seority » Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:57 pm

For now, I believe the loot system will stay the same as the official servers, but when we can figure out how to re-program it, we will be working on loot distribution.

If more players would like a "your own loot" system, that will be tricky to do. Also, we would have to lower drop rates even more since drops will happen more often. Just a warning, since we don't want to over-flow the market.

What I was hoping we could do would be more like most MMOs where if a rare drops, there can be a vote, and then a RNG will dictate who it goes to depending on what they select.

Spoiler:
Say for example, a rare drops. You'll have the option of "Need," "Want," and "Do Not Want."

If it's an item you do need (or where hoping to find) you would select "Need."
If it's an item you don't need, but want/can use/etc then you would select "Want."
If it's an item that you do not want to pick up at all, you would select "Do Not Want."

Then an random number generator will "roll" a number for you (based on your selection) and give it to whomever rolls highest. Players who roll "Need" will get it over a person who rolls "Want."

I would suggest that all this is logged in chat (somehow) so everyone understands who rolled what and the numbers they were given.

Yes, it still comes down to players being civil and not just rolling "Need" for everything, but if you notice them doing that, you can just block them and not party with them again.

This is a system most MMOs do because most rare items are "bind on pick up" (meaning the player who gets it cannot trade it). I understand that this is not the case with PSU, but I think it's a very fair system, which is why we should try to incorporate it.

Maybe we can be crazy and even add in a rare cap so that the party leader can choose what is to be rolled on. Like when some rares are just not roll worthy reguardless. (It'll happen.)


I think we should try to add this into the "Loot Tables" discussion if possible. :)
Image
"What is life, but not something to be treasured?"

shade
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Drop system

Postby shade » Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:29 am

The Need/Greed/Pass system only works when there is a timed loot lockout, which is... meh. If there isn't a such (bad) limitation in place, like you explained, it won't change anything : uncivilized/uneducated people will only roll everytime. Because that's the problem, it isn't the drop system.

In addition to choose with whom I played and choose to give rare to the finder, I discussed with my teammates what they wanted. When something dropped, we check what it was, and the player interested by this item picked it up. If there was more than one player who wanted it, we used the /dice command to determine who will get it. And this player has continued to help others to get their rares, and refrained himself to get again this item until everyone has got wanted items. I never had problems, even on paid missions.


The PSO2 (and apparently D3) loot system is just garbage - drop something you don't want, read someone else getting a drop (s)he doesn't want but you you do, "exploit" other only to play faster, drop more, etc... - and doesn't contribute to "educate" players.
ぐぇぐぇ。ぼよよん。

Sakarisei
Posts: 161
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:45 pm

Re: Drop system

Postby Sakarisei » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:41 am

Well, well...

@Seority:

I have never said about "people will have their own loot system", or my intention with this post wasn't this. However, I was asking for the drop system, mainly because if you've played the official servers of this game, there is a big ammount of people who prefers to play alone because the drop system. That, plus not all players have got the same experience with the loot system.

I can assure it because in PSOBB, even you play with friends, the first thing that you do when you play with the others is watching the drops, but not any drop that the game can drop it. I mean, maybe they'll discard the typical 9* or some useless things like YASAKANI MAGATANA, but you won't discard a LIMITER, V101 or basically another item made by endgame purposes. And yeah, I know that drops in PSU is not given by the finder, and instead the drop is given randomly, but that thing is basically the same experience, or my opinion about that is this.

About moving this topic to the loot tables? I don't mind, but if I've made this topic is because I thank that loot tables only covers the drops of the enemies, but not the drop system, which those things are different for me.

And finally, since that thing requires much time to discuss it, I don't mind playing with the original system, but the main reason is this post from the podcast #1

EvilMag wrote:regarding the separate drops thing. I think personally you should implement it and have the same system Ephinea (A PSOBB private server) uses. (When more people join the game the Drop anything rate goes down. They also give you the option to play in that drop style or classic. Considering its possible on PSO1 then I'm sure it's possible on PSU) I can promise you it'll make people wanna party with each other a lot. PSU's drop system is honestly the biggest reason why I solo'd 90% of the time.


@shade:

That idea is good, but you must consider that you must choose wisely the players for avoiding stealing the drops for their own purposes. Yeah, I know that you can block or even blacklist them. However, there is a limit for it, for non-talking that people will return the same times in the official servers for the drop, that thing that we covet for our characters.

About pso2... the problem is not the drop system. The problem is the EQs which force people to play it because there is a huge difference between the drops in EQ than in normal missions, incluiding the free field missions. Many people getting AFK/lazy in lobbies is the main reason of not losing their slot in the EQ because that thing is a significantly loss of meseta/cubes for improving your gear. That, and the impatient attitude of many PSO2 players because drop >>>>>>> coop.

Of course, your opinion is respectable, and I can understand what do you say, especially when people exploit the others for the drops...

User avatar
Crimsonknight
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: Drop system

Postby Crimsonknight » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:24 pm

In doing a little research I came across the loot system utilized by Rift, and wondered if that might be something worth looking into. To summarize, Rift uses a system where killing mobs or a boss drops typical RNG gear, that is either randomly distributed or traded (like in guilds,) however it also drops tokens from those bosses that can be traded for specific gear later on. To avoid having a 2x RNG roll situation, my suggestion is to possibly implement a token-awarding system into the mission completion reward. What I mean by that is in addition to receiving PA Fragments (Or maybe instead of?) players can receive a token that can be collected and traded in at a vendor for a guaranteed item. These tokens can be mission specific (DeRagan Scale) or planet specific (Parum Element) and should stack to x99.
As far as trading them in goes, I could see players utilizing NPC's such as "The Collector" on Parum more often. I imagine this suggested item being more like the Gold Bars introduced near the end of the game, where they are physical when dropped, but don't really have a model or interactive mechanics, thus making them relatively simple to introduce.
As far as the items being traded for goes, I believe that could be voted on by the community, but should work logically, and fairly, factoring in the difficulty of the mission which drops the item.
Spoiler:
I.e., Obtaining a [B] Rattlesnake from the trader would require x30 (20?) materials from each planet that drops the board, or from each boss that drops it.

The one flaw I am having trouble solving is what to do about high level mission bosses, like S8 Dulk Fakis. Obviously it should drop a higher 15* version, but that would introduce dozens of items into the game and might be complicated.

Thoughts?

Ricewind
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:05 am

Re: Drop system

Postby Ricewind » Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:18 am

No, the PSO2 loot system is a terrible idea.
Unless you are going to adjust drop rates, the drop rate will increase by the number of players doing the mission which can be up to 6 players.
If you are going to adjust the drop rates, on average, you're back to the original loot system.

Ultimately, you can make a system similar to what Runescape has.
Base an items value on recent trades, if anyone 'rolls' the received item, subtract points from their pool. Add points whenever they don't get a drop. Lower points = bigger chance to get a drop.
Drawbacks is that people don't want to play with you because you have a lot of negative points and you might "steal" their drop.

Just force everyone to use the randomized loot distribution that PSU offered. We know that worked well. If you don't get the drop, too bad, try again or grind solo.

Edit: To the post above mine:
Awarding tokens for completing a mission completely takes away the RNG aspect. It'll turn into a total grind-fest. Run the mission the fastest = get more tokens.

User avatar
Midori Oku
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:01 am

Re: Drop system

Postby Midori Oku » Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:36 am

The separate loot drops that PSO2 has is very much possible. However, it will be optional if we add it. For example, it will be like an option like give finder, or set random. Unfortunately, it may have to replace one of the three existing options. Most likely the set order option. However, there would have to be a drawback of selecting the separate drop system, and that would be lowered drop rates compared to give finder, set random, and set order.

As for the Need/Greed/Pass system, I don't know if it would be possible, and even if it is I personally don't think it would fit with PSU. Drops would then need to be set for priority for certain classes when you get the option to select need. With PSU having so many classes (a lot of them hybrids or close to it) it really makes the system pointless. You may as well just have it set to random because most people are going to select need if given the option, and that's going to be quite a bit.

Edit: As for adding tokens/ways to trade for items, it's unlikely we will do that. It would require more exchange missions, and exchange missions are currently something I don't think we are going to have much of as it is. A lot of items that were in existing exchange missions may just be added to the game as drops. A good example of that is the PA's that require PA fragments. We may just add them in as area drops, or mission clear box drops.


Return to “Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests