"The Plan"

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Marmalade
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"The Plan"

Postby Marmalade » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:41 pm

In light of the up coming Public Testing phase I figured now would be a good time to let you know the situation, what's likely to happen, and how this testing phase will work. Keep in mind that Public Testing is not yet available as we're still trying to work out some kinks in file patching.
There will be another post when we're ready to get everyone on.

But now is a fun part, A part we will all surely enjoy!

Before I begin, you should know that after months of hassle and just plain silliness, I am finally moving house and getting away from possibly the worst landlady in town. It's painfully close to Christmas, but I want to get a public server available for you all before I scarper off to move. I foresee a handful of problems before and after I move but I will discuss those if they need discussing.
So I'm moving, and I won't be able to put any time into Clementine while I do so. It shouldn't take long, maybe a week?
it's only around the corner :>

The Problem
So as you are aware (I hope), Clementine's main focus was to research the protocol and workings of this game, so it could be successfully brought back to life. It's done that part pretty well, perhaps glacially slow and with many helping hands whom I can't express how grateful I am for, but it has done it. Enough for me to know that while I've tried exceptionally hard to do it correctly, at a couple of points, PSU has gone left and Clementine has gone right.

Now obviously there's a problem with this. A number of systems have had hidden workings or designs that I hadn't seen until well after the fact that something seemingly functional had been written into Clementine. There are also systems that I wrote well before the public knowing of Clementine that I'm still trying to work with and plug things into. One of those systems is dealing with game areas and the players in it, which now just isn't prepared to handle how the game actually works. This one in particular has halted rooms because it simply can't deal with it, and I would be a fool to try and wire it in without some kind of backfire. And while PSU itself can be a technical hazard it doesn't necessarily mean Clementine has to mimic it to that level of delicacy.

Another example of this problem is the link between Player, Party, and Mission Instance. While it isn't immediately apparent on the surface, it is within the packets that, even when there is no active party or mission, the player is still sitting in an empty party from the moment you log in.
This is required, counter functionality relies on it with the above system; the client must know who is in your party when you're in a counter so that missions can function. It does this, rather annoyingly, with the player spawn protocol. By spawning all of your party members into a uniquely assigned area owned by your party. This wouldn't be a problem if it was designed with this fact in mind, but it wasn't. Clementine creates and destroys parties when it's required. Of course, I could continue spoofing the fact that this needs to happen, or I could design it properly.

The Plan
So we know a few redesigns are in order. It's nothing majorly huge but that's what I would like to happen now that I have a much better understanding of how this is supposed to work. Right now I'm having a much harder time trying to cross wires with what I have than actually being able to progress forward. These systems now just aren't prepared to handle what they need to handle, so I need to fix it, otherwise we'll go nowhere.

What is likely to happen with this public test is that there will at some point be two servers bound to Entrance 1 and Entrance 2.

Server 1 is going to be the primary server as it stands now: potentially messy, but playable. It will be unmanaged by myself, excluding the occasional bug fix or cross-update. It's there for you to play and hang out, but will ultimately be the old server.
Rates are up to you. Wipes are still up in the air for the future.

Server 2 is going to be, temporarily, the redesign/fixed server when it is ready to be tested. It will be a high rate server and is likely to wipe periodically. This is where I'll be focusing most of my time so that I can hammer it out ASAP.

Both servers will use different databases but I will try hard to keep the same format across both. This should hopefully let the redesigned and fixed server replace the primary public server without problems. Like-wise, any updates that can be easily transfered between the two servers will be (Things like items, weapons, and drops) so you won't be completely alone.

So what needs to be fixed, honestly?
The handling of lobbies and worlds (This one halts rooms).
The handling of attacks and targets (This is a given, it's still being figured out but generally it sucks).
The Party and Instance system (There are so many messy hacks and crossed wires it isn't even funny).

I don't expect you to be particularly happy about it, but I hope you can understand the problem I'm having and why it needs to happen.
Unfortunately these things are bound to happen, that is why I'm giving you access to the server as it currently stand now.

TL;DR
Clementine has some design flaws.
I need to fix them to move forward.
Two servers: one good, one bad.
Which side will you join?
I love you. Please don't leave me.

Feel free to ask questions or something.
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Midori Hoshi
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Re: "The Plan"

Postby Midori Hoshi » Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:13 pm

Regarding the exp rates for Entrance 1, it all depends on if there will be a wipe or not. If there will be a wipe and we end up being reverted to lv 1, it doesn't matter that much what the exp rates are.

But if there is a chance our levels will carry over to the full game, I would prefer 1x rates, maybe 2x at the most. I don't want everyone to be lv 200 with max lv PAs after only a few weeks. Especially if we are fighting monsters lv 80 to 150 and if item drops aren't implemented yet. Pretty much the only thing we will be able to actually do is level our characters and PAs, so to keep the game interesting and to maintain motivation to keep running missions, it should take a long time.
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Aelphasy
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Re: "The Plan"

Postby Aelphasy » Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:21 pm

Reading this post with that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku0PC5XqGgU is best way to read it.
Until the end.

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Re: "The Plan"

Postby Marmalade » Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:59 pm

Midori Hoshi wrote:Regarding the exp rates for Entrance 1, it all depends on if there will be a wipe or not. If there will be a wipe and we end up being reverted to lv 1, it doesn't matter that much what the exp rates are.


It's important to know the current state of the server then. While I could work around the idea that you all play legitimately on x1 rates and I never wipe after this, you should know what will be against you.

Currently there are no refined drops; all drops are from the offline mode or non-existant. Drops are being worked on but they aren't implemented yet. All equipments are available via the NPC stores by option and weapons will remain neutral element.

There is no grinding system.
There is no available storage.
There is no synthesis.
PA Exp is incorrect.

These things can be added as you go, obviously, but it may likely mean that you will hit a high level long before you get a chance to find anything good.
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Policroma
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Re: "The Plan"

Postby Policroma » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:23 pm

Stupid question. I'm assuming you still want us to report bugs we find on "entrance 1", or is that the 'Yeah, I know already" server?

Just checking so I don't make an annoying monkey of myself if I find something.

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Re: "The Plan"

Postby Marmalade » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:31 pm

Policroma wrote:Stupid question. I'm assuming you still want us to report bugs we find on "entrance 1", or is that the 'Yeah, I know already" server?

Just checking so I don't make an annoying monkey of myself if I find something.


I'll likely reform the bug section so that it's a lot clearer but for the time being all bug reports will be for Entrance 1 since it will effectively apply to both. Don't feel like you're annoying or anything though! while I do appreciate that people try to avoid duplicated reports, it's only going to remind me to do it at the end of the day.
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MysticForce
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Re: "The Plan"

Postby MysticForce » Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:38 pm

Midori Hoshi wrote:Regarding the exp rates for Entrance 1, it all depends on if there will be a wipe or not. If there will be a wipe and we end up being reverted to lv 1, it doesn't matter that much what the exp rates are.

But if there is a chance our levels will carry over to the full game, I would prefer 1x rates, maybe 2x at the most. I don't want everyone to be lv 200 with max lv PAs after only a few weeks. Especially if we are fighting monsters lv 80 to 150 and if item drops aren't implemented yet. Pretty much the only thing we will be able to actually do is level our characters and PAs, so to keep the game interesting and to maintain motivation to keep running missions, it should take a long time.



It blows mind mind (it shouldn't anymore, but it still does) that at every step of this process people have expected their progress to carry over to the actual release, if and when it happens. Do people not understand the point of alphas and betas? The point isn't for you to be able to play the game and progress, the point is for you to test the game and to see how the servers hold up, etc etc. Not to mention that progress being kept on an unfinished product makes little to no sense.

At most, I've seen a few games where progress has carried over from the final beta, but those betas had extremely low level caps that gave people an almost negligible head start over people who didn't participate in the beta.

Oh well. Keep it up team

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Re: "The Plan"

Postby SegaGamer » Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:49 pm

MysticForce wrote:
It blows mind mind (it shouldn't anymore, but it still does) that at every step of this process people have expected their progress to carry over to the actual release, if and when it happens. Do people not understand the point of alphas and betas? The point isn't for you to be able to play the game and progress, the point is for you to test the game and to see how the servers hold up, etc etc. Not to mention that progress being kept on an unfinished product makes little to no sense.

At most, I've seen a few games where progress has carried over from the final beta, but those betas had extremely low level caps that gave people an almost negligible head start over people who didn't participate in the beta.

Oh well. Keep it up team


Are there people that really want this to happen ? I would hate it personally. It would all just seem rather pointless if everything carried over.

I remember this being bought up back along too and i was glad to read that this is something that won't be happening.
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Aelphasy
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Re: "The Plan"

Postby Aelphasy » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:31 pm

It would be unfair to be able to keep our account and our characters to the final game anyway. Not everyone plan to play the beta.

To be clear : when the final game is ready, wipe for everyone right ?
Until the end.

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Re: "The Plan"

Postby MysticForce » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:26 am

I mean if people need an incentive to play the beta or if the team wants to give those that do a little reward in okay with that. Allowing people to level up to, for example

Level 20
Class level 5
PA level 11

Or something similarly insignificant, go ahead. That or a full wipe.


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